Jason_Martin

I really like his book... Particularly the adventure section! His drawings are really nice... I really appreciate the work he did on that book. Nice Job Tim! Jason

I also have a pair of Invernos and Alphas. But unlike Dale's experience, my feet have been quite cold in the Alphas. Physiology has a lot to do with it. Some people's feet get colder more easily than others. I think you'd be hard pressed to find average climbers wearing leathers or hybrids on Denali. Many people actually wear plastics, overboots, and super-gators and their feet are still cold. Footwear is not a good place to skimp on such a cold mountain. Jason

Rodchester, Your point is taken... However, I don't think you understood what I meant. European certified guides would like to work for themselves (not for an established guide service) in the United States. They would like to come here and spend a month on Denali or in Yosemite working for themselves with their European clients. The red tape that they must cut through in order to do this is not only difficult, it's quite near impossible. American Guides in Europe may work for themselves. They may take their own clientel to Europe and spend some time there guiding with minimal red tape if they are certified. Jason

First, I agree with you Erik. But currently guide services do not threaten private parties and their access. One might even be able to make the arguement that they provide increased access through their educational programs. People who would dispose of human waste in a less than satisfactory manor might learn the right way if they learn how to climb from a guide service. The vast majority of the land closures or quotas currently in place in the U.S. are directly impacted by this one simple issue. Many guide services do provide a service in the mountains. Every year parties that are in trouble are rescued by guides on mountains throughout the Northwest and throughout North America. As stated earlier, RMI guides help keep the "trail" on Rainier in shape for all parties. It is not uncommon for beginning climbers who are uncomfortable with route conditions to shadow guided parties. Guides and guided parties are often responsible for taking down piles of trash and in some cases blue bags that have been left behind by other parties. Though you are right. Guides make their living by working on public land, but to compare a guide to a logging company is a bit extreme. Guides tend to prefer a leave no trace ethic over a leave no forest ethic. You could go so far as to say that every guidebook you have is unethical from a wilderness preservation perspective. First, the authors and publishing company (mostly the publishing company) made money off of public lands; second, trees were cut to make the book; third, people visited the area thus impacting it more... We could get even more extreme -- gear manufacturers are developing gear so that you might go out and climb on public land. Yep seems like their making money off the public land as well... The point is that if you're climbing on public land, then someone has already made money off of that land somewhere. In response to Iain's comment... You're right. It's not right. Currently IFMGA guides from other countries are not allowed to work in the United States. However, fully certified AMGA guides are allowed to work in Europe. This is a serious double standard that the AMGA is trying to fix. European Guides feel very put upon by this system which allows Americans to work in their countries while not allowing them to work here. If things don't start to change, American Guides will lose these privilages. The AMGA is doing its best to standardize the guiding industry in the United States. Theoretically a certain percentage of guides are supposed to be certified by 2006 for the guide services to keep the AMGA accrediation. These certified guides in turn will be responsible for educating those who are not certified until which time they become certified. There are three certifications that an American Guide must obtain before he is an IFMGA mountian guide. They must be certified in ski guiding, alpine guiding, and rock guiding. To obtain any of these certifications requires multiple classes which cost thousands of dollars each and the passing of a test which also costs about fifteen hundred dollars. Sometimes people don't pass their tests and as a result lose their money. Certification is a good thing. It indicates to everyone that this particular person is capeable of climbing and guiding at a certain level and that he or she is professional in the way they treat the environment and other climbers. Jason

There are a lot of misconceptions on your part Caveman. First and foremost, most guides would love to guide things like Ptarmigan Ridge or Liberty Ridge. Not only that, they would not be particularly hard trips to sell. Many clients are not "gapers." In fact, there is a percentage that are high end. Unfortunately, these routes will not be open to guides unless the Park Service changes their policies... Which it looks like might happen based on the article which started this thread. In Washington State, the North Ridge of Stuart, the Serpentine Arete on Dragontail, the North Ridge of Mt. Baker, the Coleman Headwall on Mt. Baker, Frostbite Ridge on Glacier, and even routes like the East Buttress Direct on South Early Winter Spire are guided many times every year. These are not necessarily the hardest routes in the state, but they are moderately difficult and are not for those whom you are calling "gapers." Were the Willis Wall in Chamonix, it would definately be guided. Guides have a slightly different mindset than the average climber. They take pride in getting people up moderately hard climbs safely. Most guides receive a great deal of training in order to bring people up into the mountians safely. There are thousands of people being guided in Washington State every summer. More likely than not, you can only come up with one or two incidents involving clients or guides getting hurt in this state off the top of your head. The whole idea that guides are in some way unsafe and get people hurt on a regular basis is ludicrous. On top of that, the idea that guides are not in shape and cannot climb hard is also a myth. Outside of the state, the Cassin Ridge on Denali has been guided. The Nose and the Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome are guided in Yosemite all the time. The Black Ice Couloir in the Tetons is guided. Hard ice and rock routes around the country are guided every day... When knocking guides and saying that they're gapers or out of shape, think about people like Steve House, Alan Kearney, Jim Nelson, Topher Donahue, Crag Luebben, Miles Smart, Doug Robinson, and all the others you're knocking. Every guide I know is looking for challenging guiding. They are looking for things that engage both them and their clients. Your analysis of the guiding scene in America is not only ignorant, it's simply not based in reality. Jason

Any word on who these guys are? Names? Jason

The courses offered on the AMGA website are professional acreditied avalanche providers. They are oriented toward guides who are ski guides and take people into the backcountry either in helicopters or on backcountry skis. The lower level courses, Levels I and II tend to be a little more mixed company in that there are lots of normal everyday back country skiers. Level III is oriented toward guides and ski patrol. I took my course from Freddy Grossniklaus who has been a backcountry ski guide for thirty years. He has seen literally thousands of avalanches. There is currenlty a movement among avalanche providers to standardize the training across North America. The American Institute for Avalanche Research and Education (AIARE) is slowly becoming the standard. The reason I pointed to the list posted on the AMGA website is because that list points you toward these guys (the AIARE guys) who are considered the best in the business. Jason

Books are good, but the best thing you could do is to take a class. Those who provide the most comprehensive classes are listed on the American Mountain Guides Association website or AMGA.com. I read a lot about avalanches and played with beacons on my own, but taking a class and having someone who is an expert talk about it showed me just how little I'd learned from the books. Jason

Polish Bob feels a little unwanted around here, which is understandable since he was banished. However, he sent me this route description and said it was okay for me to post it. So here's the beta for those who are interested: "It Ain't Over Motherfuckers" Difficulty: D -- Mixed to 90 Degrees Length: Seven Pitches plus some simul-climbing First Ascent: Coley Gentzel, Chris Koziarz, and Polish Bob -- February 2003 Start on the left side of the N. Face of Pyramid in the big snow gully. Ascend the gully for about four hundred feet or half way up. P1: A shallow groove of ice/neve is the start of the route. Go up the goove (80 degrees at first) to some crapy snow and a ledge under an overhanging wall (about 50 m) P2: Go to the right, up a snow/neve ramp (55M) P3: Simul-climb for about 100M on snow to the fifty degree iced up slab on the left edge of the snowfield. The pro here is crappy. p4: Go up a steep groove (about 75 degrees), traverse slightly left, pull into a small left facing corner (90 degrees) then onto some ice and a 20M snowfield (angle left), 55M. P5: Start on 90 degree thin ice onto a little iced up slab and onto a snow ramp. P5&P6: Follow the ramp right. P7: Angle up and left to the final groove and the summit. Gear: 4 knife blades, medium lost arrow, cams from TCU#2 to 3.5 inch, 2 warthogs, 1 spectra, set of stoppers, 2 screws (10 and 13cm) Bob says of the route, "on the crux pitch I found myself camming the shafts of my tools in a vertical crack and scratching my crampons on quarter inch ice. It was one fo the best pitches I have ever climbed in the mountains, period." Coley, if there's anything you think should be added, please post it here for all of those that are going to run out and try to repeat this in the weekends to come. Unfortunately, this came in to late to put in this edition of the ice guide, so this is the only place you'll be able to find this beta until Alex and I do a second edition of the book some time in the distant future. Thanks to Polish Bob for allowing this to be posted. As this route and some of his other endevors prove, he is one of the stronger climbers in the state and should be respected as such. Jason

Nice Job Coley... It was indeed Polish Bob who emailed me. I'll be in touch with you about this craziness you guys managed to pull off. Congrats guys. Jason

Just got an email from a guy who reported that they completed a seven pitch mixed route on the East Face of Pyramid Peak. He rated the route D with mixed ground up to ninety degrees, WI 3. Supposedly there is one pitch of M4. That's all the beta he gave me. Hopefully, he or one of the others on this climb will decide to post a complete trip report. Jason

I just read a response on another thread concerning the "Golden Piton Awards" that were put together by Climbing magazine. I was really depressed by these awards. I thought I was actually going to read about some things that I hadn't heard about. But instead it was stuff on Dean Potter and Beth Rodden. Dean Potter and Beth Rodden are everywhere. They are in the advertisements and they are in the articles. Seeing them win awards in this so called competition really irked me. Yes, their ascents were great. Yes, they were really hard. Yes, they deserve press for this kind of stuff... But come on. Do they really need awards for recognition? I think this kind of award should have one major prerequisite. Anyone competing for the Golden Piton award -- or any other award put together by the climbing press -- should be unsponsered and unaffiliated. Jason

Wayne, You're buddy is the one who gave me the beta. Based on the info I have it IS probably the hardest climb in the state. If nothing else it is definately the hardest ice/mixed climb that I have beta on. Jason

The hardest modern mixed route in the state (i.e. bolted route) is a route called Guru on the Rap Wall in Alpental. The route goes at M9 and to my knowledge has only seen one complete ascent. Sean Issac told me that he believes the gentleman who completed this route is the first to do a route at this grade inside the boarders of Washington State. There are a number of extremely hard mixed routes that are more alpine in nature. For example, Goat's Beard in Mazama is seldom in good condition and often requires hard mixed climbing. The hardest ice/mixed route in the state is down near Camus on Hamilton Mountain. The ice climbing on the route is in the WI 6 range and there are many mixed moves. To date this route has never seen a complete ascent. It is by all standards (including rock, alpine, ice and mixed) perhaps the hardest and most commiting climb in Washington State. Jason

There are a couple things you can do for your bladder. 1) If you decide to put your bladder in your pack, you may keep the bite valve in your collar. If you blow the water back into the bladder after every time you drink, less freezing will take place. 2) If you actually wear the camelbak backpack under your coat it will not freeze. Once again, keeping the tube under the jacket will help out immensely. Good Luck, Jason

Erik and others, I agree that perhaps the original traverse is far more grand than the glacier and trail trek between these peaks. However, it seems that the vast majority of those who "do" the traverse merely tag a few summits in between their trekking. I was on the traverse last summer and nearly everyone I met had only climbed one or two mountians -- if any at all -- while traveling in this backcountry region. The vast majority of those who have completed this in a day call what they did the Ptarmigan Traverse. I would guess that those who have skied it in a day certainly did not stay on the crest, but followed the somewhat non-technical glacier portions and snow-covered trails. I think the term traverse in and of itself is somewhat undefined regionally. In the Sierras people have very staunch ideas about what a traverse entails. In the Cascades, many will avoid technical difficulties. As a result it feels as if we in the Cascades have two types of traverses which might be defined as technical and non-technical. I believe that it would be quite difficult to repeat what the original Ptarmigan Club did in a day. The vast majority of those who set foot in this area do nothing at all like that which Bill Cox, Ray Clough, Tom Myers, and Calder Bressler did way back in 1938 wearing hob nail boots. Jason

Dumpster Diver, The Ptarmigan Traverse is mostly glacier walking and high trails. This is not spray. The traverse has been done several times in a day by several parties. The standard traverse goes below and between most of the major peaks and doesn't go over them. As a result, doing it in a day generally doesn't entail any peak bagging. Jason

Last summer Joe S. and Andrew W. were able to complete the entire traverse on foot in fifteen hours. They wore approach shoes and each carried a single ski pole with a whippet on it. They did it in mid-August so there was no snow on any of the trail portions. They certainly were interested in doing it fast, but that was only part of it. Their work schedules simply didn't permit them to take multiple days to do it. Joe guided the traverse a couple weeks before the two of them decided to do it fast. Previous knowledge of the area certainly helped with their speedy traverse. Jason

The most difficult aspect of this discussion is the need to see exactly what people are referring too... That said, I'm going to respond in words and hope that it makes sense. There is actually more controversy about the figure eight tied the way it is shown in iceclimber's link than there is about the Euro Death Knot. In theory the figure eight tied in this fashion is more likely to roll out of itself than the EDK. The Euro Death Knot is reffered to as such because it is possible that were the knot tied too close to the end of the ropes it will roll out of itself. I personally have not seen this happen nor have any first hand knowledge of injuries or death as a result of this. I use the Euro Death Knot all the time and have not had a problem. However, because it has a scary name and looks a little simplistic I always double check the knot to make sure that it is dressed and that it is well away from the ends of the rope. I have recently adopted the EDK for my cordelletes as well. This is nice because I can untie them and do all sorts of things with them that I couldn't do when they were tied together with a permenately welded double fishermans knot. In October I attended a seminar wherein some well respected guides talked about the advantages and disadvantages of these knots. KC Baum, an AMGA certified rock guide, presented a modification to the EDK which I now use on a daily basis. All he did was add a second overhand knot above the first. In other words he had two EDK's stacked on top of one another. This seems to make a knot that looks a little sketchy feel a whole lot safer. Jason

John, A lot of these guys simply don't remember exactly where they went. i.e. the whole "I climbed the North Face of Big Four" phenomenon I talked about in the previous post. That compounded by twenty years makes it very difficult to identify what's going on. I did look into Becky's source for what he purports to be the original 1974 line. He credited his source as an obscure magazine called "Off Belay." I got a copy of this magazine and found that it sighted a very different ascent than Fred reported. Indeed the line written up in there was completed by Warren Stage and Dan Gold, not Carlstad and Folsom. Somewhere in his research, Fred made a mistake. The Alan Kearny line doesn't purport to follow Carlstad and Folsom's line. The line drawn in Kearny's guide may have been a first ascent, that is if an obscure climber named Jack Lewis didn't complete it before him in the eighties. Lot's of questions and too few answers. Jason

Jim is going to call the line in the drawing the Calstad/Folsom line. He spent a long time with Cal Folsom going over the photo and discussing where their original route was and he believes that this is where it went. He also has a drawing from Bart Paull which shows the Spindrift Couloir as being in the next gully over. If this is really where the Spindrift Couloir is located it is far more likely that the 1996 climb by Paull and Littauer was a first ascent. In my research I've found that many people have had a tremendously hard time identifying their exact route. Some approached the face and climbed the most feasable line which may or may not have been exactly where they thought it was. Others climbed it so long ago that they aren't sure where they climbed anymore. It appears that in the early seventies there was a rush on Big Four. But it also appears that most people referred to it as simply the North Face of Big Four... In many cases, they did not discuss their exact route. The result twenty years later is all of this confusion. It is likely that both gullies on the far right hand side of the face are very similar in nature. From a pure climbing perspective it really doesn't matter who did what first. But from a historical perspective, I can assure you that Jim and I are both doing our best to present as accurate information as possible in our books. I've spent many many hours researching this mountain as has Jim... It is likely that with the publication of his book in the spring and my book in the fall, even more information will filter in concerning the history of this mountain. I will personally continue to do my best to present as good information as possible. Jason

I looked into this rather seriously as I work in the mountians and often have to do day to day business via cell phone. From what I've learned, you have to have a phone that will provide both digital and analog services. I'm no techie so I'm not really sure what the major differences are. However, I do know that in most cases no reception will be found on a phone that only does digital. Sometimes phones are advertised as having both digital and analog. Though the reality is that they don't flip between the two settings effectively. Sometimes you have to manually switch the phone from digital to analog, then it will work. Many of the new fangled phones promote ways to check email and such on them. My experience is that these do not work in the mountains at all. These systems require a digital signal that is seldom available in the mountains. Obviously, the higher you are the more likely it is to work. I can generally get reception above five thousand feet on Cascade volcanos. On peaks near the freeway -- such as Snoqualmie Pass type peaks -- reception is available much lower. Reception may also be lower if you are near a ski resort, they tend to have towers in the vicinity. My phone is a Motorola flip phone with Verizon. It works pretty good. Jason

I didn't mean to say that SAR is bad. And I agree that anybody who puts in time to help others is doing a good thing. However, there are definately those in these organizations that should be in the mountains and there are those who should be driving the vans. In my one experience with SAR, those who were assisting in the rescue were out of shape and were adding to the hazard at hand. They had a really really hard time keeping up with the rest of us involved in the rescue. Now I know lots of SAR guys who are in shape and would have been fine. A lot of them read this board. So I don't want to sound like I'm putting SAR down. I think it is an important if not necessary resource in the Pacific Northwest and I appreciate all of you who are putting in time with the organization. Jason

In Vegas for a few more days then back up to Seatown. It has been quite windy here. I was blown off the crux of a sport route yesterday morning. Red Rocks got snow yesterday afternoon. Jason

It all depends on the locals. In some places it's quite good, whereas in others it's quite bad. Some SAR guys are in shape and some aren't, but in my experience there tends to be trends. In some cases the guys work out and practice their skills, whereas in others they sit around and admire the stickers on their cars. Jason