AlpineK

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I wanted to come back to a point that MtnGt questioned quote: "Biodiesel is available today," Does it generate more energy than it takes to create it? A crucial point, just wondering if this has been addessed. I found this on the web site of the National Biodiesel Board. They cite a US Department of Energy study quote: Biodiesel contains no sulfur or aromatics, and use of biodiesel in a conventional diesel engine results in substantial reduction of unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and particulate matter. A U.S. Department of Energy study showed that the production and use of biodiesel, compared to petroleum diesel, resulted in a 78.5% reduction in carbon dioxide emissions. Moreover, biodiesel has a positive energy balance. For every unit of energy needed to produce a gallon of biodiesel, 3.24 units of energy are gained. I've been running the stuff in my chipper for a month. The machine runs like a champ and the exhaust smells like pop corn. It costs a little more, but I think it's worth it. There is a cancer risk associated with regular diesel. With biodiesel the risk is greatly reduced. Also I'm helping American farmers.

quote: Originally posted by trask: the best shake roof preservative i ever used was "woodlife" (now outlawed) which contained about 5% penta, if i remember correctly. good poison rules! I hear DDT really kicks ass too. sorry, thread drift

I'm not sure I need to delegitimize that one Fairweather; it seems to be mostly an editorial about the evils of environmentalism. You don't have to like Grist. The fact remains the Greening Earth Society is a puppet of folks with a heavy investment in the status quo. [ 07-18-2002, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

Craig, I'm not a climate scientist, and I don't have acess to all the journals listed in the report. I do know how to use Google though. Here's what a little searching got me when I looked up The Greening Earth Society. quote: The Greening Earth Society -- a nonprofit organization founded, funded, and housed by the Western Fuels Association ... Here is a link that talks about the, "Society." grist mag I know what you or Fairweather would say if I quoted stuff from a Greenpeace site or the Siera Club, so I'm having problems with a group that gets their money from the Western Fuels Assoc. Some of the links on the Greening Earth site are funny. I found one to an article about how the DDT scare was a bunch of crap and we should still be hosing down bugs with the stuff.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Go to the Ramparts and steal all of Fred and Ray's new routes I know where they're going. PM me for details. [ 07-17-2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Isnt disagreeing with the IPCC while claiming not to understand the finer points of the science, like disagreeing with Darwin cause the bible doesn't say anything about dinosaurs or Homo Habilis? Exactly If you dissagree with data that's been subject to review, but you don't have a good understanding of the subject, why should we believe you. So bring it on. Lets see either you or Fairweather come up with data that backs your claims. Remember all good scientists submit their work for review by thier peers, so your info should come from a scientific journal not some lone scientist out prove everyone wrong. And Fairweather I've looked at links you have provided and they just aren't good enough science. You may not own stock in Texaco and you might not get your data from the Cato institute, but you sure think the same way.

The National Academy of Sciences doesn't agree with you MtnG. The Bush admin ask them to do a study before an international summit, and they found that the global temp will increase at leas 2 degrees if we keep on pumping shit into it. But what do you care you probably think Mt Rainier would look a lot better without glaciers.

quote: Originally posted by Fairweather: Mtn Goat, Wind power; hydrogen; solar; all good ideas seriously worth spending billions researching. ....But rest assured those like AlpineK would quickly find fault in those energy sources too. You see, what they really hate is that humans (ESPECIALLY Americans) are "living too well". I believe they will always see the glass as half-empty. They are tortured by the guilt of living their own good lives. ...just MHO You are totally wrong and off base to charactorize my views that way. I could charactorize you. All you are about is money and fucking over the less fortunate. You like big business. So I bet like Enron screwed retired folks out of their life savings you are trying to screw someone. I don't agree with MtnGoat, but at least he doesn't make broad statements about what I believe in.

Well even if you don't like the science behind global warming. Burning fosile fuel causes polution in big citys health problems getting a good chunk of energy from outside the US Don't you think its in our interest in terms of health and national security to get our energy on our own soil. Biodiesel is available today, and with some government support hydogen could be a practical fuel source in a decade. It wouldn't be the first time government funding speeded up a technology. Why if it wasn't for the space race we would have much slower computers right now.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: AVOID THESE PLACES: Charles Hotel and Green Canyon Motor Inn in Boston Bar; The Jolly Miller Pub in Sardis; Totem Hotel buffet in Lillooet; Klahanie Inn in Squamish; Mountain Burger House in Squamish; Pemberton Hotel in Pemberton. Mountain Burger rules. Old school Squamish not a trendy place

I think maybe the National Academy of Science has a lot more real science to back up it's claims than some goat. They did their study at the request of the Bush Admin. I know you won't change your mind, but your views are in the overwhelming minority. Where did you get your info? Probably the Cato institute or some oil company institute of, "science." [ 07-16-2002, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

quote: Originally posted by RedMonk: ah man! not that grammar shit again! oh and i always say, "better two blue pills before you leave, than two blue bags while you are on the glacier." never taken a shit on rainier thanks to the ol' anti-diarheah pills... I hear you like to puke in the mountains....so what's your favorite poptart flavor?

Where's Fairweather and his tobacco science?

quote: Originally posted by allison: You've got that wrong, K. Matter of fact I just took our ailing friend Sayjay for a walk around Greenlake yesterday! Yeah I'm generalizing, but I am mostly right. I know you won't admit it but thats ok.

All the women on this site hate each other.

To all of you that can kick my ass in real life: Hey when do we get to see holly and SK fight?

To be a good conservative you need to stereotype liberals using Retro's list, and you need to stick your head up your ass.

I'm down with the Ballroom. Despite the fact (or maybe because) that it's a, "heinous meat market."

OK anyway.... So we should drink outside. Either Golden Gardens or some bar with outside seating. Right now fires are banned at GG, so what do ya'll think? [ 07-08-2002, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

quote: Originally posted by ScottP: Small wires on a biner. Large wires on a biner. Two/three small cams on a biner. Medium/large cams on its own biner. All this on gear slings; wires in front, cams in back, smallest to largest. I mostly agree, but I put small cams on their own biner. If I know I'm climbing a hand sized crack I'll shift the small stuff to gear loops. Figure out what works best for you!

Here's something from an EPA site I found via a short search. One would think that if that wasn't the official Bush administration position they wouldn't say that we are altering our climate: Once, all climate changes occurred naturally. However, during the Industrial Revolution, we began altering our climate and environment through changing agricultural and industrial practices. Before the Industrial Revolution, human activity released very few gases into the atmosphere, but now through population growth, fossil fuel burning, and deforestation, we are affecting the mixture of gases in the atmosphere. Also: Rising global temperatures are expected to raise sea level, and change precipitation and other local climate conditions. Changing regional climate could alter forests, crop yields, and water supplies. It could also affect human health, animals, and many types of ecosystems. Deserts may expand into existing rangelands, and features of some of our National Parks may be permanently altered. Most of the United States is expected to warm, although sulfates may limit warming in some areas. Scientists currently are unable to determine which parts of the United States will become wetter or drier, but there is likely to be an overall trend toward increased precipitation and evaporation, more intense rainstorms, and drier soils. Unfortunately, many of the potentially most important impacts depend upon whether rainfall increases or decreases, which can not be reliably projected for specific areas. Also: Nevertheless, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) stated there was a "discernible" human influence on climate; and that the observed warming trend is "unlikely to be entirely natural in origin." In the most recent Third Assessment Report (2001), IPCC wrote "There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities." Source: EPA Global Warming Site Sounds like the Bush Admin thinks Global Warming is real. [ 07-07-2002, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

Fairweather, Yes I was making a general statement which you can't take literally. However, seeing that the majority of scientists agree that the rapid temperature changes we are starting to see are caused by humans, and since reports to the contrary lack peer review, I think you are getting your, "science," from sources that are suspect. Anyway even the republican Bush Admin admits that humans are to blame for rapid climate change. They just don't want to do anything about it. As to my sources why not talk to Sajay for more info. She posts here and she studies climate change. [ 07-07-2002, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

Dam Trask where do you find that shit.

Glen the majority of scientists think that humans are causing a much more rapid warming of the earth than nauture ever did. Even the Bush Admin agrees with this [ 07-07-2002, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]