AlpineK

Yes I've done it. Don't do it; it sucks big time. Stash a mtn bike on the Sleese creek side.

Drive south on the Mtn Loop Hwy from D-town. Turn off (right) on a dirt road a couple miles from town. There is a campground on the left side of the Hwy. Follow the road for a few miles. Look to your left as you drive and you will see Blueberry hill, to the right you see Three O'clock rock. If you drive to the end of the road and hike for a bit you'll come to Green Giant Buttress.

I have to admit I wasn't able to put a label on the political leanings of the story. But if I were to label someone I would probably say that there sure are a lot of conservatives that are anti-fun....not Trask though. [ 07-26-2002, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

I guess I'm in the club

You can have a big bar if you got a big motor to back it up.

quote: Originally posted by DavidW: It's public land...... some of these cliffs glitter like a disco ball in the sunshine. Everyone, including the family guy hiking by with his dog and kids has a right to an opinion and to be heard. Even Trask Everyone's got a right to comment on aesthetics; but the ethics of placing a bolt based on available natural protection requires some experience leading climbs.

quote: Originally posted by The Saccharine Trust: Notice to climbers asking questions on the board: From here on out, you will be required to submit your climbing resume to Erik the moderator before asking any questions about anything, especially climbing ethics. This is a matter of world importance and only Erik is authorized to determine whether or not you are worthy of asking such a question. Prepare to be dazzling for the interview to follow the resume review. Weekend warriors and people with interests other than climbing need not apply. Allison, If you want respect in the long term for your opinion then actions not words are what counts. Yes you can have an opinion, just don't expect people to take you seriously. Trask claims he isn't a climber, and you don't see him commenting on bolt ethics. [ 07-25-2002, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

I would like to point out a few practical things to those of you who don’t have much experience working outdoors. First off, cutting and moving brush and logs is hard work even if you have power tools like chain saws. Secondly, the forest circus has a limited budget for trail clearing. Third, do you extreme wilderness lovers have any idea why large manual crosscut saws were called, “misery whips?” I say get things done as fast and efficiently as possible. That means using chainsaws on trails in wilderness areas; that way us tax payers get the biggest bang for our buck.

So you want your trees to be ugly, squat, damp, and stinky? I don't know...most folks like nice looking trees.

huh

It sounds like the two of you are lame ass motherfuckers. Keep trashing each other; your keeping a number of people entertained.

v and I climbed the SW face of Kangaroo Temple. Great route!

Don't make me out you. Grumpy grumpy grumpy.

I don't feel I need to say anything after JB shut you guys down. After all he does research in the field As to an answer: Biodiesel is available today. Trucks could be releasing 75% less co2 right now. Obviously production of the fuel needs to increase if everybody starts using it. I use the stuff in my chipper, and when I buy a new chip truck it will be fueled with biodiesel. The cost of wind power has dropped dramatically. The US is reported to be the Saudi Arabia of wind power. Wind doesn't work well for changing demands of consumers, however if you store wind energy as hydrogen you can meet consumer demands. The government got a man to the moon in less than 10 years. There is no reason why we shouldn't be dumping money into developing cheap fuel cells. Perhaps we should shift the money from Star Wars research. How can the government help? Well tax cuts of course (a republican favorite). Lower road taxes for biodiesel (right now you pay about 50 cents/gal) Give income tax credits to consumers who buy cars above the fleet average mpg, or use alternative fuels. Tax credits to power companies that start generating, "green," power. The government does some of these things now, but all the tax credits and programs shoud be increased. Finally you conservative types should stop wasting your time trying to disprove climate change theory and start figuring out how to make money off new power sources. Fairweather, I should point out that in a PM exchange we had a while ago I told you I wasn't in favor of the Kyoto plan, and I suggested some of the above solutions. I guess you have a shitty memory. You sound kind of grumpy Fairweather. News from Cali got you down? You know I bet you would feel much better with a nice new hybrid car, or if you've got to haul a bunch of stuff why not get yourself a big old diesel rig and fuel it with biodiesel. [ 07-22-2002, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

With a name like poptart I expect some good trolls and smart ass remarks. Too bad all this poptart can do is talk PC crap and make lame ass trolls.

Did someone say chain saw?

Here's an organization I think Fairweather, MtnGoat, and Shuksan should join asap. Society

!

I wanted to come back to a point that MtnGt questioned quote: "Biodiesel is available today," Does it generate more energy than it takes to create it? A crucial point, just wondering if this has been addessed. I found this on the web site of the National Biodiesel Board. They cite a US Department of Energy study quote: Biodiesel contains no sulfur or aromatics, and use of biodiesel in a conventional diesel engine results in substantial reduction of unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and particulate matter. A U.S. Department of Energy study showed that the production and use of biodiesel, compared to petroleum diesel, resulted in a 78.5% reduction in carbon dioxide emissions. Moreover, biodiesel has a positive energy balance. For every unit of energy needed to produce a gallon of biodiesel, 3.24 units of energy are gained. I've been running the stuff in my chipper for a month. The machine runs like a champ and the exhaust smells like pop corn. It costs a little more, but I think it's worth it. There is a cancer risk associated with regular diesel. With biodiesel the risk is greatly reduced. Also I'm helping American farmers.

quote: Originally posted by trask: the best shake roof preservative i ever used was "woodlife" (now outlawed) which contained about 5% penta, if i remember correctly. good poison rules! I hear DDT really kicks ass too. sorry, thread drift

I'm not sure I need to delegitimize that one Fairweather; it seems to be mostly an editorial about the evils of environmentalism. You don't have to like Grist. The fact remains the Greening Earth Society is a puppet of folks with a heavy investment in the status quo. [ 07-18-2002, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

Craig, I'm not a climate scientist, and I don't have acess to all the journals listed in the report. I do know how to use Google though. Here's what a little searching got me when I looked up The Greening Earth Society. quote: The Greening Earth Society -- a nonprofit organization founded, funded, and housed by the Western Fuels Association ... Here is a link that talks about the, "Society." grist mag I know what you or Fairweather would say if I quoted stuff from a Greenpeace site or the Siera Club, so I'm having problems with a group that gets their money from the Western Fuels Assoc. Some of the links on the Greening Earth site are funny. I found one to an article about how the DDT scare was a bunch of crap and we should still be hosing down bugs with the stuff.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Go to the Ramparts and steal all of Fred and Ray's new routes I know where they're going. PM me for details. [ 07-17-2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Isnt disagreeing with the IPCC while claiming not to understand the finer points of the science, like disagreeing with Darwin cause the bible doesn't say anything about dinosaurs or Homo Habilis? Exactly If you dissagree with data that's been subject to review, but you don't have a good understanding of the subject, why should we believe you. So bring it on. Lets see either you or Fairweather come up with data that backs your claims. Remember all good scientists submit their work for review by thier peers, so your info should come from a scientific journal not some lone scientist out prove everyone wrong. And Fairweather I've looked at links you have provided and they just aren't good enough science. You may not own stock in Texaco and you might not get your data from the Cato institute, but you sure think the same way.

The National Academy of Sciences doesn't agree with you MtnG. The Bush admin ask them to do a study before an international summit, and they found that the global temp will increase at leas 2 degrees if we keep on pumping shit into it. But what do you care you probably think Mt Rainier would look a lot better without glaciers.