Alex

Sorry I was not trying to suggest that you dont take care of business, I think everyone would agree that if you have doubts about your rope, you shouldnt even think twice about replacing it. My comment was aimed specifically at claiming 1500$ worth of loss for ~400$ worth of equipment (nothing personal Collin). This past Christmas we wrecked our car and the back window went out all over the interior of the car, stacked with our road trip ice climbing gear. But the gear was inside a TNF duffel, so it wasnt affected. We swept the car out and continued the trip. After the trip I vacuumed the car out. Now, 9 months later I am STILL finding glass shards in the back of the car, despite numerous vacuumings. The safety glass is for the most part not sharp and the shards not small enough to work themselves into the sheath of a rope, but thats "for the most part". There were def small slivers that could have gotten in and done some serious damage to hand or rope.

good job Tom!

I remember being at that stage. I owned a chalk bag, a rope, some webbing, some biners, and climbed in my Vasque Sundowners. My friends and I were self-taught, and only learned slowly because none of the other more experienced climbers we ran into ever actually took any time to make any helpful suggestions. They avoided us like the plague, hmmmm, wonder why? We still had fun, and realized that we didnt know much. I gained alot of my initial knowledge from RR's Advanced Rockcraft books. In hindsight I likely would have advanced and become safer MUCH MORE rapidly had some real climber, such as yourself, ever offered to take me out just one weekend!! These days when I see novices at the crags I try to restrain myself from saying too much, unless they are being obviously unsafe...usually this manifests itself in someone belaying for the first time, and being coached by the climber who is actually climbing...when that happens I will drop what I am doing and come over and help belay, and try to get the brake hand concept across, it usually doesnt take long for the belayer to understand the whole deal, especially when the full weight of the climber comes on the rope while lowering... The scariest things I still see probably occur at Mt Marrymoor, most of the folks at the crags at least seem to have some time in the gym and understand the concept of belay and toproping, if not efficient and safe leading on bolts. Of course very rarely do you see real novices at Index or LWorth outside the GNS area or obvious beginner toprope crags.

thinking lworth or vantage 2 days

good points, i can understand the rap anchor setup to prevent hordes from trampling the surrounding area getting down. in those cases i would much rather have 2 inconspicuous chains than a big donkey trail down from the top.

Even in LW, this has hardly been the case the last 5 years. The new route development that I have seen in Leavenworth in recent times has sometimes been either squeeze job, contrived, unethical, or all 3. I have climbed alot of quality routes in Der Worth, but I would say a vast majority of them are in the old guidebook. But I am not complaining 'bout that. At the Gunks or Index it would have been 5.5. It was technically no harder than Saber. So no, not at my limit (but one day soon, it might be, wheres my walker??). If it were an out of the way crag that no one ever frequented I might not care (but it isnt). My feeling is that none of the bolts are necessary. For those who are really curious and would like more information, please PM me and I will tell you the name of the route, and you can go climb it and make up your own mind. Oh, except Rudy, who seems to already have made up his mind about this particular issue.

I am not Ken Nichols, Rudy. I understand the role bolts play very well and frankly if you had any idea you'd know me as a very docile accepting climber. I sure happily clip enough bolts without complaint and have drilled a few. But to permit such an intense disregard for rock where anything, and I mean anything goes, is just plain irresponsible. The gym is the gym. There are limits to what should be bolted even in places where bolted climbs are accepted as the norm. Also, since you might not have noticed, I have not been a mod for quite some time, so now I'm just a lemming like you.

I'm not going to play 20 questions, but no, it was not PG.

duh Here's a question: Say the "FA" has bolted a line into submission, placing many bolts next to perfectly protectable features. Not only that, but placing sporto chain anchor 5 feet from the top of a walkoff decent. I come along one day (yesterday, lets say) and easily lead this bolt protected travesty on natural pro. Does that give me the right to chop the route? how about with the FAs approval? How would my action be viewed any differently than a noble RR chopping that evil bolt-spawn Dawn Wall creation of yesteryear? 'Cause if you say yes, you can sure as shit bet that by the end of the week there are going to be a few less bolted moderates at a local crag. But maybe I wont wait for your collective decision. Maybe I will realize that my ethics are not the conglomerate of a dozen disparate internet voices? Maybe I will make a decision on my own, just like that "FA", that might affect the future climbing experience (positive or negative) of others. Soliciting input might be noble, but in the end climbing is selfish, no one "owns" the rock (unless its on private property, eh?), and we all have to live with the consequences of our actions much much longer than we initially suspect.

In a real snow year those things would be pretty much buried, no?

I am not so sure that Erikn's intitial posting about a bolt on SPM was really the best thing to do, but in any event the thread has wandered, so I split this off in an attempt to keep Erikn's thread more on topic. PP my GOD, all this discussion about one bolt, when just across the way at a crag I visited for the first time this weekend but shall remain nameless, I saw more bolts next to perfectly protectable cracks (all in the name of "route development for the gumby sporto masses") than I ever hope to see anywhere else! If it were the Gunks that shit would have been chopped in seconds (and ratings would be significally more in tune with reality), and some really fantastic trad routes on "damn, this is granite" could have been allowed to flourish. But no, subdue the shit for the masses.

Tired and old cliche but still oh so true: the best boot is the one that fits best. Here are some models you might try: LaSportiva Trango EVO Scarpa Freney Pro (I have a pair of 42.5s I am selling) LaSportiva K3s if you can find them Scarpa Eiger / Eiger Assault The WaffleStompers looks cool, who/where is the local dealer? I am back to my Eigers after I wore out my first pair of Freneys and the Freney Pro (unfortunately) fits a bit differently.

I'd like to echo Dru here: The Anarchist especially looks like an exact Quark Ergo rip off. Oh, except for that useful ice axe leash attachment point, which I will need for my leashless ergo tools.

You've gotta be kidding, how are these fundamentally any different from the X-15 design circa 1989? Wait 16 years for what,a little bend in the top of the shaft? Look a little snazzier?

insurance fraud is lame.

...now where did I put my walker??

That looks really cool! Good on ya for staying motivated and for lucking out on a decent blind date!

I am not sure what you are talking about? The NF of Fay routes (Central Ice Bulge Direct specifically, but all of them in general) gets done very often. Gene and I did Central Ice Bulge Direct a few years ago, its a fun, short route with no hazard. The ice bulge itself has receded a bit and is no longer overhanging. As far as Slipstream, its gets climbed regularly every year. Aggressive Treatment and Borderline are more conditions dependent.

archenema, you need an 'possum if you are into forked.

I think alot of the reason these routes dont get done is because in order to do them with any sort of safety you have to be intimately aware of current condititions. The only time I came close to doing Yocum ridge on Hood was the year I lived in Government Camp: I looked at the mountain daily, was on it weekly, lived the current weather. The only way to be intimately aware of the current conditions is to live nearby, or spend a whole lot of time in the vicinity of the route, waiting. Which is my point: most people will recognize this pattern when they think about going climbing to Alaska. Fly in with a couple weeks of food, establish a camp, wait for a good window, go for it. Willis Wall's downfall is that it is Alaskan in nature, but if you are going to camp out on a glacier for a week or two 1) its nicer to fly all that shit in and 2) might as well go to Alaska!!!! The only people that are aware enough about the conditions are probably the climbing rangers on the mountain, or those with alot of time on their hands and who have the route as a specific objective (a pretty rare combination). Others are just rolling the dice.

If the line is "prized" enough, there are always interested parties. Slipstream is a perfect example. Acceptable risk is a personal threshhold. And mountains have their way with us regardless of whether the dangers are obvious, in this case, or inobvious, such as the eariler accident this year on Sharkfin (a well travelled and oft-thought-of-as-safe place).

Great shot! That pic is of what I called variation "b". Burdo calls this pitch 5.8, and it looked fun but wide up higher and harder to protect with the rack we brought. Variation "a", the 10a chimney thingy is over in the far left of your photo, about 30 left of climber. The variation I climbed ("c") is off the the right of this pic, just around a corner past a huge fun flake.

looks sweet good on ya both!

yeah but the stuff on the Sony is for "home viewing only"

I climbed even futher right than that on the last pitch. From what I could see, there are 3 ways to finish on the Northwest face: a) up the 10a chimeny variation on the left to the summit anchor (looks fun and intimidating!), b) straight up the center of the face, which follows the rap line (also fun but a bit hard to protect?), and c) the std route far around the right side, kind of out of view from Burgundy Ledge, nice dihedral to short wide crack to summit. I think you might have done b?, we did c. The rap line looked like a great TR problem, but there was an unprotected slab half way up that looked pretty stiff. I don't know, I am not climbing any harder than I ever have for sure, but recently the routes that I have done in the mountains have felt very "soft". Perhaps I am underrating things too much.