snowleopard_x

Thanks for the post. I saw the route from a distance the other week, and it was looking rather dirty. Glad you made it and had a good time. Some time ago, I heard/read someone refer to this as the "Givler Route" (in honor of the late Al Givler, who led the first ascent), a lot less of a mouthfull than "North Face of the Northwest Ridge". Jeff Smoot calls it something else different in his book as well to add to the mess. But I wonder why the name Givler Route never stuck?

Tim - I'm not really into caving, but have enjoyed studying Oregon geology and volcanology. I have a book on Oregon Caves and it lists quite a few, but none on Mt. Bachelor. This doesn't mean there are none, but if there is one, it's likely quite small, and probably on the SW flank of the peak somewhere, as this is more jagged, and not often visited. If you're really into caving, there are some amazing geological wonders east of Bend that are well worth looking for.

Thanks John, I picked up my info from what I could interpret from the local media. Appreciate your updated info, and the links. [This message has been edited by snowleopard (edited 07-21-2001).]

Jeff Thomas actually re-printed Oregon High last year. I don't know if you guys can find it up on Seattle, but it's still around in most of the local climbing stores here in Portland, and not hard at all to pick up. If you're planning on coming to Oregon to climb, it's definately the book to get.

As of last week, the Westside Road would certainly be drivably by most cars to at least the unmaintained trail up Tahoma Creek (to Indian Henry's Hunting Ground). There is one section where the road is rough gravel, and another where a small amount of water runs over the road with the left side of the road crumbling away (though still plenty of room for a car). As a matter of fact, some hikers saw a NPS car on the road going past that point. But at the same time, I can easily see some mom and pop driving their motorhome off the edge of the road somewhere in there. Then of course suing the NPS for a zillion dollars. I agree that Rainier is getting overcrowded, and that NPS idea of herding everyone in shuttles to Paradise isn't the best idea. I also agree that if the west side road were open, more climbers would attempt some fine intermediate routes on that side of the mountain more often. But in the road's current condition, I don't see them opening it anytime soon, unless some money is budgeted to it. And that's another question to ask. How much money is there, and where is it going?

A climber had to be helicoptered off North Sister last weekend after falling. Here is a news link. Just a guess, but I'd say he wasn't one with a lot of experience(?): http://www.koin.com/c6k/news/stories/news-86633020010710-180744.html And another link. This one with photos and video: http://www.kgw.com/kgwnews/top_story.html?StoryID=22885 [This message has been edited by snowleopard (edited 07-11-2001).]

How did the Russell Cliffs, to the right of the Winthrop look? If you glanced that way. From the descriptions, it would seem that the Emmons route skirting way right would make the Russell route more accessable, and safer to approach than normal.

There are several excellent camp sites around 8,100' in an area we called the "Wolf's Lair" (great if you are planning 3 days, like we were), and though we didn't go there specifically, at about 10,300' just off route it looked like good sites to the left on a spectacular perch we called the "Eagle's Nest" (don't ask about the names, nothing official, just helped us remember). Mike listed campsites around 9,400' in the book, and perhaps higher up, but we didn't see much there. Though maybe our (or his?) altimter was off. There are many places on the route to bivy, I should add. Again, we didn't complete the route, not even close, so it's more likely he (or the other books) can offer more than I.

Chugach - There is a 50/50 chance a partner and I will be attempting either the Adams Glacier, or the North Face of NW Ridge (Gilvler route) this weekend, and descend the North Ridge. IF we go, I'll look for it. Where specifically did you lose it on the ridge? BTW - How did the NFNWR/Givler route look?

Kevlar - I have no qualms with your decision, I likely would have done the same. Judd was not only a danger to himself, but to you and your partner as well. But I do have a question. You never said much on what you did once you returned to Muir. Did you watch to see if Judd came down on his own, or if another team brought him down? Did you mention his state of mind/ability and location to the Rangers at Muir? Or back down at Paradise when you signed out? I ask these questions as I understand why you abandoned him, but surly you must have been concerned about his safety enough to check on him, or contact others (in this case authorities, Climbing Rangers) about his safety, yes?

On Sunday, a climber from the Midwest fell down the Chute, slid over 200', and into the bergschrund on Mt. Hood. PMR, Climbing Rangers and others there were able to excavate him, and a helicopter picked him up and took him to the hospital where he was treated for various injuries, but will apparently recover. I don't know more specifics, but apparently he underestimated the route and was ehausted coming down and fell in the soft, steep snow, which is very common. Mt. Hood is extremely dry and about done for the entire season, for those who wonder. I'd say the only routes left to climb are the South Side (if you go very early - on the summit at sunrise) and the Sunshine Route, if you descend the South Side. All other routes are very likely melted out rockfall bowling alleys, and as soon as the weather starts to cool, the ice climbing season will begin. Probably six weeks early this year due to the drought.

Holly - We're pretty much in agreement. I personally think the key to success on Success is to climb it when it's covered in snow (April?) take 3+ days, and do a carry over. The route is somewhat deceptive though. When you look at it from Pyramid Peak, it looks rather steep and jagged. But when you get up there, you realize it isn't, but it's a hell of a lot longer than it looks. Downclimbing it is certainly possible, people have downclimbed Liberty and Ptarmigan when forced to, but I'd opt to go light, and carry over. I'm pretty sure Mike's on the front end of a 6 day rotation, but I'll see if I can get him to come on here with an expert opinion, as I didn't set foot on the route above about 10k, where it starts to get fun/scary, and he did indeed plan on downclimbing it.

I spent most of the last week in and around Rainier. The weather wasn't always great (until we headed out, of course), and we made a half-hearted attempt on Success Cleaver, only to find the route pretty melted out scree. This is probably the longest route on the mountain, and was really, really long to us. 11,400' of eleveation gain. Great views from 8,000' up though. Going up, I had the pleasure of running into a Ranger I knew from when he worked on Mt. Hood, and he later referred to the route as "almost heinous", especially to downclimb (fully agree). On the way out we ran into another Ranger, who I kind of knew from e-mail, he's even posted on here, and maybe will come on soon with a better update than mine. Very nice guy. Full of energy. He and his gal(?) were checking the route out, and hoping to blitz it in 2 days (!!! We planned 3-4). He agreed he undergraded the route a bit, calling it a Grade II, when that would be in optimum conditions. This time of year (and this dry year) it is more like a Grade III. When checking out, the Rangers at Longmire joked that we had tried the "Unsuccessful Cleaver"! As many people underestimate how long the route is. I'd say I fit into that group. We saw only one other team on the entire west/southwest side of the mounain, other than Climbing Rangers. But the army of folks heading up to Muir were as thick as ever. From what I gathered, the DC is supposedly in great shape; The Emmons wildly open, but very doable; The Finger and Thumb still okay; The Kautz is reported to have good snow/ice, but the cliff is dangerous; Liberty Ridge is out. I have no info on the more remote, intermediate to advanced routes on the west/northwest side (Edmunds, Mowich, Ptarmigan etc.). If all goes well, I'll be back in 2-3 weeks to give another shot at the mountain. This time a real effort, less of a sightseeing recon like this week (though I had a fantastic time). I've had the worst luck on Rainier it seems, but that may stem from my refusal to climb any of the standard routes (Kautz, or Finger is as standard as I'll try). Just my thing though, not to hurt anyone's feelings who like the DC and Emmons. I just don't like the crowds and boot trench.

If the Adams Glacier is a bit much, take a gander at a few other routes from the north and west sides. The Lava Ridge, North Ridge, White Salmon Glacier, and West Ridge routes are all beginner-intermediate, somewhat long, often climbed in spring to early summer, with light crowds. I have not climbed them all, but have been on that side of the mountain and it's quite nice. Check out Fred Beckey's CAG 1, and Jeff Smoot's Climbing the Cascade Volcanoes books for more.

Dr. E - Check my post from 5/14. Conditions should not have changed too much since then. My guess is that Wy East is done for the year (rockfall), the Sandy Headwall is probably getting close to season's end (it looked great on 5/13), and the Sunshine is still quite doable, though crossing the schrund may be a challenge. If you take the Sunshine, advise to take two cars and take the South Side down. Getting down any of the routes on the North side can be deadly. You probably already knew that, but just trying to be safe.

That's very impressive Ranger Chad Kellogg's time. Signing the register too. Did he set the record in full climbing gear, as Van Hoy and Smolich tried back in 1985? I know others have bettered their time in tennis shoes and ski poles. For those interested, Dee Molenaar's terrific book, The Challenge of Rainier, has much information on attempts on Rainier, and record times on it's routes. Most of them by Van Hoy, Smolich and Jason Edwards. All in one push, car to car in a under a day. For what it's worth, in Mike Gauthier's book, he notes that Fuhrer's Finger is not the most direct route to the summit, Gib Ledges is. Though the speed attempts are always done on the DC.

13 - I got a good look at it last weekend when trying to get up the Wilson Headwall (we didn't even make it, btw). According to the Rangers, it has been the most successfully ascended route in the Kautz Alpine Zone this year. Here is a cut and past from my other thread: The Fuhrer Finger looked good, but we saw two teams that tried it, and both said when the sun hits it on the top, it turned to bad slush, even at 13,000'. There are some precarious looking snow bridges crossing the Wilson Glacier to get to it though. The 'schrund under the Fuhrer's Thumb is open now, which scares most people away. Best of luck to you.

Great job GS.

Hi guys. Back from Rainier where we didn't make it. Our intention was the Wilson Headwall, with Kautz as a possible alternative. But on the way there our strongest guy (who flew in from North Carolina and I called "reinforcements" only half-joking) blew out his knee in the heavy deep snow. He rested and tried in the morning to go up (giving up in the tent is bad juju to me, him too) and felt good for about an hour, but then was finished, done. That makes a long story short. Also, we tried blitzing the mountain in 2 days before the wind and cold came in (and it did get windy on the way out), which some teams do, but that's too fast for us, especially considering the soft snow. Going back down in the soft snow, winds, and carrying the extra weight (to help my friend) was absolute hell. The "slippery slide" was pretty much "out of order", due to the mush. From what the Rangers said, the Wilson Headwall had not been climbed this year, but to be honest, it looked nasty, the water ice that often forms on the rock bands was all but gone, and the chute around them to the left was littered with debris from the Kautz Cliff. The Fuhrer Finger looked good, but we saw two teams that tried it, and both said when the sun hits it on the top, it turned to bad slush, even at 13,000'. There are some precarious looking snow bridges crossing the Wilson to get to it though. The 'schrund under the Fuhrer's Thumb is open now, which scares most people away. The Kautz looked good, with the crevasses under the cliff (to get to the chute) still mostly closed and easy to navigate, but the area littered with debris from the Kautz Ice Cliff. Hard to tell though, as it was first light then and still pretty dark. I didn't get a look at the chute, as this is where we stopped, then turned around (what a disappointing place to turn around huh?! Right when it gets fun). For those with more skills/stamina than I, the Kautz Headwall looked in fantastic condition. Beautiful snow chutes with little or no sluffing, very little rockfall, and a few sections of short water ice. Now, a final environmental/political note: We found at least 3 used blue bags just sitting in the snow at the Turtle and Camp Hazard. This is so major uncool I can't believe it. If you're going to not take your excrement down, at least shovel it in a crevasse. I don't want to encourage this, as it's environmentally questionable, but just leaving it in a double plastic bag right there, on the snow, for everyone to see, to sit there for many years and deteriorate and then end up in the snow/meltwater, for others to drink, is one of the most unethical, and environmentally damaging things a climber can do. I only hope that the Mountain Gods punish those people fittingly during their future climbs.

Are you looking for general route beta, or conditions beta? Take a look at my post from last week on conditions for that. For route beta, check out Jeff Thomas book Oregon High, it has all the Cascade Routes in it. Great book. In short, it's a straight shot up the peak, but steep at the top, and very exposed. Not the most difficult route on Hood by any stretch, but many people have been killed falling off it. Do NOT descend it. Get two cars (or bum a ride) and go down the South Side. Due to the weak snow year, the route could be out of condition by July 4th weekend.

I hardly post here anymore, actually, I've never posted in the Rainier forum. But I wanted to say we're givng a go at the Wilson Headwall this weekend, IF the mountain complies. We may opt for the Kautz as soon as we get to the Ranger Shack, depending on what they have to say. Wish me luck. I'll make a post when I get back on conditions on that side.

VTurtle - Good questions, not taken as too high of a criticism. We went that way for several reasons. Mostly because we were getting pelted at least a little just about everywhere along the headwall, and knew the way up Leuthold, and wasn't too sure on the Reid Headwall (didn't want to end up where JRWclimbs was!). That, and as you know the little bits coming down sting, but are not a huge threat. I had the luck of Gilligan in that the largest chunk that came down the couloir the entire day was the one that hit me. Heinrich's question: Is the route going to be good this weekend? That's another good question. My speculation, as I said in my other post, is that it's going to rain ice again, all along the headwall, though possibly worst up the couloir proper. As each week passes, depending on weather and temp, you'll get more and more coming down, especially rocks. If you feel up for it, may I suggest the Sandy Headwall? It's further, but we took a break when on the Queen's Chair and looked down and along the thing, it looked in great condition. Curious if VTurtle and JRW took a look and saw the same?

Aidan - I've only been up the Kautz (but not on the very summit, whiteout and got lost!) (been up towards Muir, but that doesn't count as a climb). The Kautz is very nice, just know what you're in for. Look for a book by a guy named Mick Gaiter or something like that, its the best one on The Mountain. ...Wait, I found the link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898866553/o/qid=990160935 /sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/107-7953794-7534155 [This message has been edited by snowleopard (edited 05-18-2001).]

For those interested, I got a great look at most of the major routes on the peak this past weekend. Starting on the South Side, and going around the mountain: The South Side is fine, but the bergschrund has scissored,, I have never seen it like this. It's also opening fast. West Crater/Zig Zag Glacier route, and the Old Crater variation are still in, but won't last much longer. All of the routes on the East Crater rim are out. Very dangerous looking. Leuthold Couloir and the Reid Headwall are just about done for the year, this is where I was last weekend and we were pelted with lots of ice, and bits of rock. Soon this will be lots of rock. Yocum Ridge was probably never in this year, and is quite bare now. The Sandy Headwall looked excellent looking down it, with some scattered ice fall avalanches off the northern part of the glacier where it meets Cathedral Ridge. Crossing the Reid and around Yocum to get there looked fine. The upper half of Cathedral Ridge looked superb, the lower half is starting to melt out on the SW face, but good on the NE. The dramatic and rarely visited Ladd and Coe glaciers were still quite covered in snow. The Sunshine route looked very good, though the schrund near Horseshoe rock was opening from my viewpoints (up above). The Eliot Headwall and North Face I looked down on, and both looked sketchy, more rock exposed each day, and more snow than ice (too hard for me to climb anyway). Cooper Spur looked good, with the snow chute leading towards the Black Spider well covered. I could not see the top of Wy East, or Newton Clark Headwall at all. I imagine the former is close to done for the year, and the latter probably in.

Although I'd been all around Mt. Hood, up it more than one way, I'd never been up this fine route. Often it's "in" from late winter until up to sometimes July 4th. Not this year. This is about the latest any sane person would climb the route. It, and the entire peak, looks like it does in late June, not mid-May. I went with my friend Matt, who I had never climbed with before...I'm going to cut to the quick here. We were constantly pelted with bits of ice and rock. Just standing there, about to get out onto the face, and into the couloir, is like crossing a war zone with bullets and schrapnel everywhere. And you have to just gut it out and go for it. Jumping from one safe spot to the next, trying to time the "incoming". Getting hit with marble sized pieces of ice coming down that thing are painful. Imagine what would happen if you were hit right in the lower chest with a chunk of ice the size of a soccer ball coming down it! Well, that's what happened to me. It was quite, quite painful, and more than knocked the wind out of me. I was actually quite shocky (is that a word?!) for several minutes afterwards and my hands quivered. It was amazing that it didn't knock me over. It took several minutes to recover as we just sat there. Eventually, with rest, water, and GU, I was able to continue up, even leading a bit later at the top. The ice chunk also hit my thumb, which was swollen and hurts like hell, and makes it hard to type! Getting through all that really added to the accomplishment of making it to the top of a normally intermediate route. Of note: Huge kudos to Matt and his perfect timing with humor. Just when I was starting to recover and we were about to continue, I asked him "can you lead?" as I handed him the (mostly unnecessary, small) rack. And he said, "oh yeah, and you probably want me to short rope you too, Sandy." I was like, "...huh?". But then it registered, a joke! And later, when moving, and I thought about it, it really had me laughing! And what great medicine that turned out to be.