snowleopard_x

Hey Jon, I said "arguably the best..." Well, I guess you were arguing, so it's okay. Now that we're comparing which is best (all in fun, I honestly hope no one is getting bent out of shape) I've still yet to hear anyone refute my claims on: 1) winter biking conditioning the body to the elements as good as anything else. 2) You can bike 2-4 hours at a time, maybe each day. Who here is up for 2-4 hours of Stairmaster? Running? Or even swimming? 3) You can bike up to 7 days a week, if willing to tough out the weather. Much easier to pull off than hiking 7 days a week, with work and all. 4) Cardio is the great equalizer, and bicycling is great for this. (My belief and experience is that my exhaustion occurs here before muscle fatigue.) Thus bicycling is "arguable" the best training. Okay, have at me gang! Yeah, I still agree with Courtenay though on doing what you like to do (and helps your health). That is far and away most important. If you don't want to ride a bike, by all means, don't.

I'm curious to know if anyone here (specifically rock and ice climbers) have tried using this training technique for increasing grip strength and building up forearm stamina. Does everyone know what it is?! I can post a link (if I can find it!) to a website describing it, and it's benefits.

Hey Lhotse - Pretty sure Courtenay who hangs over on the Fitness Board is a gal. Rob - which rec.climbing are you thinking of? While I like the OMA, I don't like having to be a member ($) to surf the bulk of their site (hence, I'm not a member). Not sure on the Mazama board. But they, plus Mountaineers, and others are certainly worth a shot to post a "check this out" on. I do know that at Lexicomm it's even more testoserone than here!

"Main thing is to do what you most enjoy doing" Can't agree more. This is more important than anything. If you like hiking, or bicycling (as I do), or even the stairmaster (I hate), then by all means do that. Hey Courtenay, how come no register?

Actually, we could go one step further: The best training for climbing...is climbing! Don't let a little rain and snow get you down! Get out there and enjoy the sport in every season! Part of my point regarding the bike: If it's kept in your home, you're 15 minutes (dress, stretch) from getting out on a long training ride. No need to drive anywhere to hike or do anything. I also prefer it over any gym. Though others might not, I'm just not a gym rat. Courtenay, I know you will agree with me here. Cardio fitness is the great equalizer. If your body is used to having your heart pound inside your chest for hours on end, when it really counts, you will hold up. Bicycling (and I don't mean a jaunt around the neighborhood) is a great daily way to make that so. Yes, there are other ways for high cardio, and I have probably tried them all (cross country skiing being maybe at the top) but even with hiking hard I have not found a better way to continuously get a sustained high level of cardio fitness than on the bike. Key on "continuously", as in almost every day. I know your very knowledgable at this, but I'm older than I look, and speak with a hell of a lot of first hand experience. Totally agree with what you said on the "best choice" being whatever you'll do. That is the real key above all else. Even walking in the city park with a pack is better than sitting at home surfing the net. And on that note...

I recommend hiking. On your off work days, take your rain gear (if wet), a pack, and set out for the trails. It's closer to climbing, you're in the elements (conditions the body and mind to the weather), and you can do it for a few hours at a time. Very hard to do on any trainer. Plus, best of all: It's free! Many trails all along the Cascades open year round. Including many close to Portland and Seattle. A half hour drive away. Hills, flats, etc. Just takes some research (free again!)

I'd like to dispute one thing: "Obviously, riding a bike is not a substitute for doing training hikes or the Stairmaster". Here is why I strongly disagree, at least with the Stairmaster part: Almost anyone can get out and ride a bike for one hour every other day or so. And with determination, 3-4 hour rides are not out of the question. Can you name anyone who has spent 3-4 hours on a Stairmaster? Also, riding a bike is much, much more pleasurable than standing on a Stairmaster for even 10 minutes. Point 2: Bicycling is terrific cardio exercise (and great for your). It taxes your heart in a variety of ways. Running, hiking, even a program on a Stairmaster is hard to match for riding a bike (pushing it at least somewhat hard) as on the bike you work, then rest, then go anaerobic, then easy, then hard, then rest, etc. Also, unlike those other sports (except hiking) it can be done for 3-4 hours in one stretch (or more), as noted before. Now, my big secret that no one believes, because they won't even try it: Bicycling is arguable the best way to train for climbing. Providing you are willing to ride through the winter, every day. Why do I say this? Because of the elements. When it's cold, and wet, and windy outside walking in the city, it's always double or triple that bad out in it on a bike. The wind chill is much colder, the rain (or snow) is right in your face, and you head into the wind from every direction. Plus you are working. Sometimes hard, sometimes light. So it's a constant heat/freeze cycle. Just like climbing. Start now and see if you agree come March. Ride every day. In the cold, in the wind, in the rain, and even snow. No matter how bad it is. By the time March rolls around, you'll be conditioned, both your body, and your mind, to almost anything mother nature can throw at you. Also recommend a road bike. It's faster, thus colder, and streets and paths are less protected from wind and rain (like Mtn Bike trails). Old Danish proverb: Ride into the winter, and you can ride through the winter.

I once had bad knees (from running, and trying to play football when not a big guy). They ached, and I could hear them "grind" when stretching. I was 18 years old, and my parents considered surgery. That didn't happen but they didn't get much better. A few years later, like a miracle, my knees were fixed. Almost totally 100% healed. How did I do it? Bicycle.

Forrest. What if I don't need the customer services support, and spend countless hours of my own time digging up beta on gear (and I don't mean going into shops and asking every question, then leaving and surfing the net for cheapest prices)? Shouldn't I then be able to buy that gear for the cheapest I can find it, and thus pay the price if my research was wrong and I made a bad decision? I actually feel I am in the minority of people who can walk into any given outdoor store and know exactly what I am looking for 99% of the time. Beyond that, if I do go to a store, and genuinely get good CS and honest support, you bet I'll consider spending the extra $ there, as I have several times. But I don't really feel it's my duty to support those people when I frankly don't need them as much as the bulk of their customers do, and am willing to pay the price for my potential research failures or bad decisions. Nor can I afford their prices no matter how knowledgable they are for the public at large. Perhaps you make more money than I do. But if it weren't for these sales, I wouldn't be out climbing. I don't live in Washington, but we have shops just the same here. And you bet, I try whenever I can to buy from them over the REI monster. But again, if I know what I want, and I can't afford it from them, I'll get it wherever I can for the cheapest price. Whether that be from a local sale, or ordering it from France. (Sorry if I sound snobby. I re-read your note, and obviously your last paragraph wasn't intended for people who do their own research like me) [This message has been edited by snowleopard (edited 10-31-2000).]

Okay. Snowleopard's been busy. Here is a link the the State of Washington's government page for state Representitives, and state Senators: http://www.leg.wa.gov/wsladm/default.htm And if you don't know who your rep is, here is a link to who is from where, and there is a link to maps with the districts on it there if you're not sure. The site is excellent and easy to surf: http://www.leg.wa.gov/house/hadm/district.htm I've done all I possibly can to make it as easy as possible for you Washingtonians. Here is your chance to be heard. And just in case you weren't paying attention in civics class, here is a final note. Sorry if I seem heavy handed here: Be as polite and professional as possible. Do NOT be antagonizing or preachy. You want this person on your side. Start your notes, "Dear Senator/Representitive _______", and end them, "Sincerely,". Spell check it, and write in good grammar. Yes, even e-mail. (Note to MountainDudes. You may want to put these links up on the main page. No political statements attached. Just a "Want to sound off to local politicians about a climbing issue? Here are some links..." I'll try to dig Oregon, Idaho, and even Alaska, California, and Montana up if you like.)

Here is a link to Governor Gary Locke's personal website. This link goes directly to the "send the Governor e-mail" page. http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/govemail.htm If you can't get started writing, try to use terms or phrases like "irreversable" or "forever alter our state's beauty", or bring up traffic problems, or pollution. Or mention that you don't want Mt. Ranier to be the constant traffic jam that Yosemite, Grand Canyon or Yellowstone is. And do NOT forget to put your full name and address in there so they know you are a real citizen of the state, not some lobbyist. Or if you can't think of anything to write, at least cut and paste this: Dear Governor Locke, As a citizen of the state of Washington, I am writing to you to express my concern over the recent permit given for a proposed 400-acre resort just west of Mt. Rainier National Park. This area is one of the most pristine, beautiful places in our state. Developing it into a resort with golf courses and stip malls is not the reason many of us live here, or the world we'd like to see. I ask you to please look into this issue, and consider stopping it, or at least finding a more reasonable solution towards growing, while still preserving our state's natural beauty. Something no resort could ever provide. Sincerely, [This message has been edited by snowleopard (edited 10-30-2000).]

Gonna get a lot of "angry faces" with this thread. You hit it right on the head with politicians seeing tax revenue, without planning any futher than that. Seattle heading south and east already has sprawl & traffic problems. And if you want to know how to NOT plan an urban community around your natural surroundings, take a look at Bend (Sun River). Yes, Bachelor, Sisters, Smith, all of that is nice, and close. But all the Time-Shares, and Golf Courses, and Resorts make one sick. Irreversably damaged, forever. I am not from Washington, but my best bet for stopping this, or curbing it at least, would be to find out who your state representitive and state senator is, and write to that person. My state rep here in Oregon gives out her e-mail address, and responds to e-mail if you put your full name and address on there (so she knows I am from her district and not some lobbyist). And with voter season up, it should be quite easy to find out who your rep and senator is. Beyond that, I'd write to Gary Locke. While he's somewhat pro-growth, he's a bright guy and seems like he'd be open to the argument. His e-mail can probably be found on the web. I'll do a search and see if I can help.

Sounds good guys. I think the idea of being able to post photos with trip reports (or vice-versa) is a great idea. Having a picture story of climbs will certainly help lure people to that area of the site. What might help with photos is if right on the site you have a place for us to e-mail photos, instead of having to get out of the browser, open the e-mail program, then link and send. Call me lazy, okay. But this being the time of "better, faster, cheaper" with the web at the center of it... If you get automated upload of photos it would be wise to have it autosize. This will help keep the load time down for us folks with slow modems.

Finding a way to create a section for us to post photos (or especially photos with trip reports) would be great. These tend to lend to the community aspect of many boards on the web. I think the idea of the News section on the main page is good, but it seems to not be very prominent. Maybe with time as this site and it's following grows? Something NOT to do: Allow pop-up ads here, as they are far and away the most annoying ads on the web. Especially the kind that create new windows.

No, I am definately not Blockhead. A more accurate pesudonym for me would have to be "Pig Pen" anyway! As I noted a couple of posts ago, just looking for input on hard routes. However one wishes to define that. And in-between the arguing, some good ones have come out. Perhaps I should have titled the thread "Hard Routes in the Cascades", instead of "Hardest".

"Smiley's screws crank handles - hate the handles, love the screws - the coffee grinders are made of white metal crap and shatter if you hit them with a tool" (Jim. I promise not to tell anyone, but those screws are not pound-in's! That little thingy is to help you screw it into the ice faster. FYI!

Jim, That's why I wrote that exception for the Czech Direct! BUT... Twight and gang did indeed take a camera on the Czech Direct route! I have seen the photos! I'd be curious to know what it was, and how much it weighed!?!

You bring up a good point SherpaJim on perception of danger, and how much it counts for. Along with that, take a look at Everest. Many people who are certainly not experts attempt it each year, some even make it. Something unthinkable 20 years ago. I wonder if Cerro Torre, or even K2 will someday be this way? That said, we've gotten off topic here from the point of my original thread of just looking for some peoples ideas on hard routes in the Cascades, however one wishes to define that. And I thank you Brent for your succinct post.

Actually, the "jerk" reference was to myself. Guessing for perhaps your feelings to my post. Know what you mean by neither candidate representing you. I've felt this way for several elections in a row.

id'i'ot - n. 1. A person hopelessly deficient in the ordinary mental powers; one lacking the capacity to develop beyond the mental age of three or four years. 2. An utterly foolish or senseless person; one lacking intellectual depth. Random House College Dictionary (1997) {I'll look up "jerk" in a moment for you }

Some points to clarify. I'd be shocked if Nader got 11% of the vote. Not that I would mind. It's great to see someone with fresh (and I think good) ideas out there. But if he can get 7% of the vote, that creates a lot of matching funds for the next election, and would help pressure the debate commission to more seriously consider allowing the Green Party candidate in at least one debate next election. It would also give steam to the Green Party as a whole in other elections. Something sorely needed in this plutocratic 2-party system we currently have. I wouldn't call Gore an "idiot". One could say he's said some idiotic things, is overdramatic, or that you don't believe some of the things he says. But his command of complex issues across the board show he's certainly not an idiot. Bush is on record as being pro-life, and has never wavered from that stance. How far he pushes the issue as president remains to be seen.

Thanks for the info on the MH jacket Rob. I've had good luck with Moonstone stuff. But they did go through bankruptcy re-structuring a few years back and maybe your stuff was made during that time.

Just a note of claification. Most every palmcorder these days weighs less than one pound and delivers stunning quality. I believe the Sony PC1 weighs a scant 9 oz. The time to film factor may be something else on a climb such as the Czech Direct though. I guess I was only trying to point out that it's getting easier to actually get some decent footage of extreme climbs and the world between the "business climb" and harder, not often mentioned climbs, is not that far apart when it comes to documenting at least some of it. It's going to say below here I edited this post. Here is what the edit is: I looked up some spec's and Sony is cheating with the weight on the PC1. They are not including a battery or tape. It is closer to a pound after that. May as well take your cool rock collection and weight set along too then, huh? Hey Hal, was this post edited by anyone? And when? [This message has been edited by snowleopard (edited 10-24-2000).]

I've actually been to the Andes, and the Canadian Rockies (summer and winter). Also to the Tian Shan in Central Asia. I guess I'm just sub-average by this definition.

Good post Alex. But now that the Eastern Bloc has totally been wiped, there are still routes done that House was speaking of these days. Tomaz Humar on Dhaulagiri, or even House, Twight and (I draw a blank, forgive me!) just this year on Denali. I have no problem with the heroes theory. And I don't think House does either. I think his point, and I agree, is that there is something golden with those ascents like what the Poles did, or Humar, or he and Twight (and many others) have done. And he's worried that might get lost, or even forgotten, beyond just not appreciated, with modern gadgetry. House gives a big thanks to things like the Polartec Challenge and other sponsors that do give money to these extreme climbs that get little media coverage. A point House didn't even touch on is that with modern toys, such as digital video palmcorders that take TV quality video, and all the Palm Pilots, sat phones, etc. It actually isn't THAT hard, or even expensive, to document even the most hair raising climb at least a little. What it then comes down to is connections. Do you have Outside or Quokka willing to follow you? Can you get 20 minutes of good footage and edit it well enough to get into festivals? And so on.