LostCamKenny

i hear that if you turn your tool around so that the pick faces away from you then this wont happen Dodging ice chunks, not the tools! http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/smartass

i hear that if you turn your tool around so that the pick faces away from you then this wont happen

guy's definitely got an adventurous spirit

Way to elevate the discussion. So explain to me again what business joe dip-shit has telling me what I need to carry with me up a choss pile so he can feel better about how easy it is for rescuers (with their "slick gear and cool patches") to find my body? According to the latest info I saw, climbers account for something like only 3% of all rescues in the state of Oregon. What about the other 97%? What are we doing to save them from themselves? I can't figure out what it is you are getting at. You don't think beacons should be mandatory but you do think that we as climbers should engage in asinine discussions with people who's only information in regards to mountaineering is what they see on TV and read from the Oregonian. NO... I don't want to waste my time talking with these morons. It's not my job to educate these idiots and yes I am "rabidly opposed to any sort of regulation or critique" as long as it is coming from someone who doesn't climb. I am happy to discuss this issue with fellow climbers which is what I thought I was doing on this web site. I respect the opinions of the other climbers on this thread that disagree with me and of course we can all agree to disagree. But don't make the mistake in thinking that just because you see the value in it that others will and should feel the same. I don't like electronic gizmo's of ANY kind in the wilderness. I can't tell you the number of times I've been hiking with someone who spent the entire trip fiddle fucking around with their goddamn GPS while telling me that my compass/ map was wrong. What do these people do when their batteries die? Follow me and my ancient technology back to the truck. Maybe if they had an MLU, ELB, Spot, Fastfind or whatever, they could simply activate it and the helicopter would arrive to whisk them away to the safety of the nearest starbucks. No thanks, I'll stick with my own skill set, a map/compass and a PBR. That's it, I'm done. Nice!

:lmao: :lmao: i especially liked the classified ad... very funny!

This same question has been running through my head ever since the MLU discussion first came up. It seems like PLB / MLU's are great if your lost and need someone to find you, but I have yet to here of a climbing rescue where "lost" is the problem. It's usually, rockfall, icefall, crevasses fall, avalanche, or a significant climber fall all of which involved a major trauma. That coupled with the fact that climbing rescues take many hours after the rescue is initated at best, and days if the weather isn't cooperative, and anything that would be life threatening in the front country is likely fatal. For climbers, it seems like MLU's / PLB's are more like a body recovery tool and I'm reluctant to require people to carry gear for that purpose. For sailors and boaters where PLB's are required, it's a different story again. I expect that what they are protecting against is a motor going dead or a mast breaking leaving the boat dead in the water, and your effectively "lost" and just need somebody to come get you. huh... i likes

YES, exactly, and if i was on PMR i would not want much to do with it if my efforts were taken in such a manner... I'd be thinking, "screw you - find someone else to do this. if you don't appreciate my volunteer work than maybe you should do it yourself" Precisely the reason we should not be taking cheap shots at those who give their time to help...

yup, and requiring MLUs are the first step to government-controlled climbing.

thanks. back at ya.

I'd cover my eyes - NOT!

have 2 of those bill - what else you got?

nicely put, bob

oh yeah, dane, not everyone fears death. for example i don't fear death because, like you said, it happens to everyone. its a part of life. falling on the other hand is something that i am afraid of... my choices and decisions while climbing are what keep me safe from falling and it is mental toughness and maturity that has taught me to ignore that fear long enough to finish what i am doing so i can return home. also, i am master of my own opinion (flawless or faulty). do you respect other's for their opinions and try to learn form them or do you just try to push yours on them?

That is laughable. When you gain the maturity to be called "old timer" and have faced the reality of your own death dozens of times you might realise that dying climbing is no different that being run over by a bus, being shot in the head or a long lingering death by cancer. Few rational people get to choose how they'll die. Damn few climbers ever died "doing what they love". Dirt dives, sleeping on ice blankets and banging your head against a rock not withstanding. What you miss is everyone fears death. How/why you fear death has nothing to do with climbing. We all know death is coming, only difference for each of us is how much pain we'll go through before its done. Dane, are you a televangelist, cause that would really be laughable!

nice find joe i was wondering - while watching - how much quicker the ozone would have been developed if such tactics had been employed...

The non-climber's fear of death is what keeps them from going into the mountains. A climber's fear of death is different and the same: a climber must face this fear and learn to manage it in order to meet his/her objective. yes, everyone dies, but the non-climber doesn't have to face their fear of dying EVERYDAY unless they are a general, stereotypical basketcase.

ok, we can agree to disagree, because there is no way that johnny and joanna non-climber understand the death consequences the same way i do. maybe they are afraid of dying, but they don't understand the climber's fear of death and they won't unless they climb! How dense are you old timer?

A beacon could have helped rescuers find the trio that had to bivy under their dog, too, but no one mentions that since they were found and survived.

how does the non-climbing public understand these things, since they are, as you said, non-climbing? Are they afraid of dying cold and alone because they fear that they might get locked in a freezer after falling off the basement stairs of their house? The debate should take place in a public, open, forum but not so a vote can be made on whether or not MLUs should be required, but so that the limitations of such devices can be understood, along with their strengths.

wrote mine...

it might as well be nation-wide if one such bill passes for Hood... will be a sad day if it does

is it a hybrid, cause that might explain it...

perhaps, then a more beefed up voluntary presence - i'm not talking 24/7 (though that would be best case scenario) but for at least the 18 hours of the day when climbers are LIKELY to be on the mountain (experienced climbers - climbers who know when to be and when not to be on the mountain). if a person such as what i am suggesting climbs the southside up to hogsback and hangs out (like you said the PMR boys were doin) or works his/her way toward the saddle to look out over the reid then there is a presence on the mountain that can be there solely for the purpose of emergencies. have another climber back at the cave with a radio (they both have radios - and both work in pairs) and there is a line of communication to rescue personnel faster then what has been the system to date. A system such as what i'm suggesting is not without its hurdles and it would take a lot of organization to put together such a unit of climbers willing to donate their time. but when a rescue is mounted it is done so after the climbers have been reported "late to return" and i think (but am not sure - maybe someone from PMR could chime in here) someone has to report you missing before a search is started - they don't just check the "out climbing" forms at this time to see if everyone is back... if a rescue could be started earlier than they already are then that would give those in trouble a much higher chance of surviving whatever it is that got them in troubel in the first place. of course, this system couldn't hope to prevent all the accidents...

thanks for keeping yer stick on the ice, don!