It seems we have reached a general concensus overall in our sport where the type of crag and public opinion rules as to what crags are sport, what are trad, what are mixed trad and sport, etc. Some crags are just so much more suitable for trad then many other places, while some places don't offer trad placements at all. There will and should always be discussion and banter back and forth on developement but it seems to me a happy medium has been struck for a number of years now. However there always be a couple people that come along and piss in the soup in order to bring attention to themselves. Small minded and extremist, they lurk at both ends of the spectrum in all walks of life. There is no meaninful dialogue or bridging gaps and opinions, but simply a blind insistence that their way is the only way. They have no sense of community, common sense, or the overall picture and to engage them is simply to allow them to spew and get their rocks off.