el jefe

cc.com, the last place to look for breaking news of what's happening in nw climbing scene.

when i saw the title of this thread i thought it was going to be a trip report by fairweather

strong effort. nice day's work nonetheless.

fairweather and kkk aren't available right now as both went to washington dc to take part in the million moron march.

are you as dumb as you sound because you sound like a shithead.

nice work.

thanks for putting this list together.

what ivan says is right. the whole vantucky region was annexed by pdx long ago. alexbaker needs a lesson in nw geography!

looking back at the past as a guide it is certainly safe to say the future will be different from how any of us imagine it will be. also, "fuck" can be either trad or sport.

fat and eloquent, too. the level of discourse you are able to maintain is simply dazzling. who said having only a two digit IQ is a handicap? you, sir, are certainly a very capable cretin.

it was probably the "porker" bit, kimmo. my guess is poor jake has become somewhat self-conscious about his burgeoning waistline, hence the puerile comments re: my mother. i didn't know a blow aimed at the belly could be so devastating. come on, jake, it just means there more of you to love.

rudy, looks like you and me need to get together and go climb das toof and post the 914th trip report on cc.com about our adventure on what is clearly washington's most sought-after summit. then maybe we'll get some cred with jake porker et al. i don't give a shit what you do. but why don't you shut the fuck up about people who do write trip reports mmmkay? i got no problem with people who write trip reports and for the most part i enjoy them and find them useful sources of information. you, however, mr shitforbrains moderator, are the one who made an issue of people who don't write trip reports, hence my sarcastic response. if you are such a pussy that you can't take a little shit then maybe you shouldn't be dishing it out in the first place.

rudy, looks like you and me need to get together and go climb das toof and post the 914th trip report on cc.com about our adventure on what is clearly washington's most sought-after summit. then maybe we'll get some cred with jake porker et al.

angular motion

i don't go to the anchor if i felt good but botched the sequence. in that case i usually try to save the energy for the next try instead. however, if i felt like i failed because i didn't really know the moves well enough, then i go to the anchors climbing bolt to bolt and work on remembering my sequence. once i start trying to redpoint, i try to save my energy for redpoint efforts.

I'd hope you're being facetious. number of trip reports on cc.com = climbing knowledge and experience, also know as the "fairweather assessment technique, alpine scaling skill" or FATASS measurement. according to the FATASS, ivan is clearly the burliest climber posting on cc.com since he is the current leader in terms of number of trip reports posted. this also would seem to indicate that, as the current leader, ivan is the reigning expert on climbing ethics and style. anyone want to try to explain how the FATASS measurement relates to the better known "chestbeater index"? i know that total number of posts on cc.com = one's "windbag score", and that > 5000 posts means your windbag score is "category 5 blowhard", etc.

And since it's impossible to leave no trace, let's just wreck it some more. Listen, Jefe, believe it or not, before sport climbing and grid bolting, climbers managed to have a dandy time and left a fraction of the trace/mess that is common at just about every cliff today. Your argument seems to suggest that since we can't possibly have zero impact, anything goes. i can't imagine anyone ever had fun climbing with a judgmental, pompous ass like you, pope. your stifling dogmatism and rigid self-righteousness couldn't possibly yield anything that anyone would deem "fun".

selkirk's question is a good one. if you fell because you botched the sequence, then just pull the rope and try again. i'll just add that in the switch from toprope to redpoint attempts there is usually new information that needs to be assimilated (e.g., hard clip). a good tip is to get the finish really dialed even if it isn't the hardest part of the route. once you get through the cruxes you still need to seal the deal.

pope just don't like them bolts, pete. simple, unreasoning prejudice and closed-mndedness. climbing has to stay the way he says because that's what ethics is. ethics is what pope says. and raindawg. none of the rest of us are authorized to think about any of this because they say so. got it?

tvash definitely nails it re: gyms are greener. much smaller carbon footprint for me to hop on my bicycle and cruise down to the portland rock gym with harness and shoes and spend the day climbing than to crank up the gasoline-powered vehicle and head out to beacon. and all those widgets and cams i need to climb at beacon? they require energy be consumed in order for them to be manufactured. the carbon footprint of the sporto with his 12 quickdraws is undoubtedly smaller than that of the tradster with his triple sets of bd cams, etc, plus the quickdraws. the alpinist adds high-tech clothing, ice gear, etc to the equation. all of which points up the absurdity of the "leave no trace ethic" in the first place. if you really want to leave no trace, then you'll just stay at home. i don't want to stay at home, so that means i've decided that i'm going to leave a trace. humans alter their environment, that's what they do (this much should be obvious, especially to an archeologist such as raindawg). it isn't possible to not do what you were designed to do. "leaving no trace" isn't possible for us. if we are going climbing, then we are going to leave a trace. quoting the holy scripture of the 1973 chouniard catalogue or religious leaders like reinhold messner won't change this fact about human activity.

i guess i have to agree with you, off white. checat shares the raindawg bolt phobia/psychosis, but isn't a dick about it. the removable bolts deal just sounds silly.

Prior to this post and the one you made immediately after, I thought you were just a harmless, fun guy with a big mouth. Now I think you're either ignorant or a real prick. Whether Bachar intended it (and I assume he did), the statement made by his solo of Father Figure, as interpreted by most, was that the traditional approach to climbing is superior. One could climb hard numbers, in more control and with greater safety by investing the time to learn the ground-up approach. Bachar was well beyond his prime at this point and yet he made child's play out of Cosgrove's route, making every move static. This was a demonstration of excellence, an inspiration and example of what's possible when climbers are willing to focus their efforts instead of taking the most expedient, most convenient way, wilderness be damned. The route, BTW, is short and includes maybe only four bolts. Would have made for an excellent top-rope climb and provided enjoyment equal to what the sport version offers. I was certainly amazed by Bachar's solo ascents. Who wasn't? More impressive to me is that he resisted rap bolting and sport climbing, in an attempt to preserve what was great about American rock climbing and avoid the eventual and predictable grid bolting we see today. In retrospect, he sacrificed his professional career by choosing to do the right thing. blahblahblahblah

checat = another raindawg. just what this site needs.

awesome trip!

No haranguing required, pretty much everyone is already in the other camp. Personally, I'm not trying to sway a soul, just pointing out how powerful the self-reinforcing group-think of the vast majority really is. Sort of like trying to convince commercial fishermen we might be overfishing the resource. And again, for me it boils down to that 'climbing' vs. 'adventure climbing' deal. if you aren't "trying to sway a soul". then what reason is there for you to point out "the self reinforcing group-think"? i mean, if you aren't attempting to achieve some sort of dialogue, then are you just being a dick? seems to me if you didn't really care what people think, then you wouldn't bother posting in a thread like this so the fact that you do post means you are just being ornery, as my dear old mom would have put it. simply put: what's your motivation for talking to people if you aren't trying to have a conversation in the first place?