BirdDog

Lars: Here's some stats from Oregon Office of Emergency Management showing % of rescues for certain groups. Vehicle, ATV's, snowmobiles 20.5% Hikers 13.8% Wanderers (Hiking without fixed destination 10.1% Hunting 9.4% Boating 6.4% Suicides 5.5% Swimming 4.2% Aircraft 3.7% Climbing 3.4% Mushroom Picking 3.0% Other 20.0% As you can see SAR op's for climbers are a very small percentage of the total. In America we will attempt to rescue you from any situation you get into. We will rescue you from your burning home you lit on fire while smoking in bed. We will rescue you from your drug overdose. If you rob a bank and get shot we will rescue you. We will try to save your life after you crash your car while shit-face drunk. And we do all this and more, free of charge. Most all of these situations will be supported by paid personel such as firefighters, EMT's, & paramedics. If you need a rescue on a mountain, outside of a National Park, you will be rescued by a voluteer organization supported by donations; such as Portland Mountain Resuce and/or other similar organizations. Why are you singling out climbers to pay for their rescue costs. Would it not be fair to have everyone pay for their rescue costs?

OK, third times is a charm. Here's the link http://www.nps.gov/archive/mora/climb/images/mapcompass.pdf

Post deleted by BirdDog

Yea, well...I've got a PDF with the GPS info. I'm just too stupid to figure out how to post the PDF to cc.com. If anyone can tell me I'll get it posted. Got the thing from the web and saved it to my hard drive, no it's stuck there; and I can't find the link. OP - send me a PM w/your e-mail and I'll e-mail it to you.

(2) + } A person who guides for compensation an organized group that includes children under 18 years of age on any mountain { + at a point + } above the timberline { - must - } { + shall + }carry an altimeter, { + an electronic signaling device, + } a contour map of the area and a compass. This Bill should be modified - They forgot to include the 11th essential - Toilet Paper.

layton; you said what the doc said. I just didn't articulate well. Everything works OK now with orthotics/supefeet.

I know you said you injured your calf, but here's some food for thought. For some years I had problems with my calves, tightness, sore etc.. no injury. I could not stretch the problem out. Due to foot issues I got some orthotics and bingo - no calf problems. My arch had "fallen" and the Doc said calf was being pulled by ligaments which were now sort of in the wrong alignment. Someone w/more medical knowledge could probably explain this better than I. Take a look at "foot orthotics survey" on cc.com.

Personaly I almost always use the self arrest grip - 'cause if you fall you don't need to think about changing hand position. Self-belay grip is really only for comfort, so if your axe is uncomfortable get some foam pipe wrap and duct tape it to the head. This is more comfortable and also insulates your hand from the cold metal head.

Great TR and great pic's. Thanks,. enjoyed the read!

Exit 54 snow park, south side of I-90.

Yes, there is something - knowledge of how to travel in mountain terrain. Arm yourself with knowledge and don;t go places you do not have the skill to negotiate. Glad you're not dead!

I have an old Marmot 3 layer gore-tex jacket that I have washed/treated with Nikwax wash and spray several times- it works very well. Use the Nikwax wash. Just be sure to wash and rinse, rinse, rinse. After the spray dries, stick the jacket in the dryer on low/med. for 10 min. - no fabric softner. Just warm it, don't let it get hot.

You sure it wasn't a falling climber that broke it and sheared it sideways?

A few years back my feet grew. Shoes/boots I'd had for years didn't fit anylonger. My toes were slammed to the end. Also, I was having calf pain, tried to stretch calves but no use. I was also having knee pain going down hill. Went to a foot Doc and he explained my tendons had stretched and my arch had fallen. Dr. prescribed custom orthodics and said maybe try superfeet insoles first due to cost. I've been wearing superfeet insoles for a couple of years - no problems. I did have to buy new boots - went from a 10 to an 11 1/2 size; in the same make/model of boot.

Check out this link to Seattle Times for Iowa Ice Cliombing. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003521448_silo12.html

Thread drift - is like spindrift only warmer? There are a lot of things that take the adventure out of something - like requesting beta on LR. (Jammin's previous post.) Think of the challenge of climbing in the cascades in the '30 with no maps, no beta ...etc... Yes, going with a commercial guide takes out some challenge out of climbing, so does going with someone who has experience on a certain route; albeit it adds safety. For many folks not from the area hiring a guide is the most practical and safe way to enjoy a climb. So, Earth n' Sky - come on out to Washington, hire a guide (check out Internation Mountain Guides or Alpine Ascent Int'l. as well as RMI) I would strongly suggest you spend a couple of days on the lower part (below about 8000') of Rainier to acclimatize prior to your ascent. You will enjoy the climb more, have a better chance of sumitting and garner all that huge amount of respect everyone will heap upon you. Good Luck

A one day snow park permit is $8. There's a decent snow park/sledding area off exit 54 I-90. If you get up there early you can sell it to someone else on the way out for $4. That nets you out @$4. Skip the treat @ Mickey D's and you're $$$'s ahead.

Wow, Dave's moved into the new millenium - he has a web page. Very Cool.

Nice TR - awesome day. Saw your tracks heading up the rockfall. Snow was great. I had my two boys (6 & 11) with me "Dad, can we follow them." Gorgeous day. Nice climb guys.

Thanks for the date clarification; thought this was DTR - Dream Trip report. Nice sunrise pics.

Nice TR. Awesome pic of Illumination Rock.

Dave Page the Cobbler in Seattle. He'll fix anything better than new. He's in the Fremont district. 206.632.8686

jonmf - I can't speak for the dead, but I would guess these people did not believe they would die. Yes, I think climbers are pushing limits more than they did in the old days; but it is human nature to try to achieve that which has not been achieved before. I don't think dying is in vogue with anyone. I think pushing the limits, both personally and globally, is in vogue; as it has been since Magellan attempted to circumnavigate the globe ( a trip from which he did not return).

My favorite quote (Ed Viestures) is this: "Getting to the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory." This has certainly worked for Ed. My Dad used to say "Being a climber is nothing more than someone putting one foot in front of the other. Being a mountaineer is knowing when to stop climbing and get home safely." I have lived (sic) by this. Many years ago on Baker our team leaders decided to turn back. I respected their decision but asked alot of questions as to why. One old guy (I can't remember his name) said "Son, I'm sure you've heard of HAPE, HACE, and other mountain related ailments; right? Well the worst disease you can get on a mountain is summit fever." Understood Jonmf - you're point is well taken. I think you are correct in your assesment of climbing classes. However, I personaly have never felt belittled by anyone for having "failed" to get to the summit; and I would guess I have as many "failures" as I have "summits". I am still here however.

If you're in the Seattle area, Marmot is having a demo day @ Snowqualmie Pass. Check 'em out. You're probably better off to start skiiing on groomed slopes than the backcountry. Here's the cc.com link: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/624823/page/1#Post624823