rob

The problem is that you're holding these guys to a higher standard than the rest of us. They aren't any better. By many accounts, infidelity is extremely common. Everyone I've ever been with has cheated on me. Most people I know have been cheated on. I hate it that people hold these guys up like some kind of Religious Icon, that should be void of all fault. Humans are generally pretty fucked up. I've done lots of stupid shit. Many of our greatest leaders have had seriously conflicting personal issues. It's not a matter of whether it was right or wrong; it's a matter of relevance. Where do you draw the line? If you expect your leaders to not have personal flaws, then you're constantly going to be disappointed. I say it's better to just judge them on their performance at work. I don't get judged at my office on any personal transgressions; why should they? If they're doing a good job, who cares what they do behind closed doors? If they're doing a bad job, then get rid of them for that -- why dig up personal garbage to bolster your case? Use their poor performance. If their personal transgressions cause a negative effect on their job performance, then you shouldn't have any reason to NOT nail them on their poor job performance. Why bring up the personal at all -- UNLESS THAT'S ALL THAT YOU HAVE? I'm sick of people expecting these guys to be paragons. Religion is dead. Haven't you heard?

[video:youtube]PtzJhTfQiMA

Whatever Rob. Leaving your lights on isnt shit compared to cheating on your wife. Wow, you sound just like a conservative: Outraged because of his immorality. Should we all start legislating morality now? I guess that means you supported Clinton's impeachment? I sure didn't. Personal lives are personal lives. He didn't break the law; his offense is between him and his family. I thought you were a liberal! huh, strange.

Well, I hate to find myself in the position of defending a republican However, I'm not sure the Clinton analogy really applies, does it? I mean, sure, the guy is a hypocrit. They all are. So that's a wash. But, Sanford didn't really lie about it, did it? He seemed pretty honest about it. Whereas Clinton was pretty dishonest, lied under oath, tried to hide it, etc. Don't get my wrong; I didn't support his impeachment -- partly because I felt that he shouldn't have HAD to lie about it, given the personal nature of the infraction. But still, Clinton's offense just striked me as more serious. I mean, I'm not an ethicist by any means, but still.... I guess I'm just trying to say I don't see Sanford and Clinton as having committed the same offense. Also, Sanford's affair was hardly spur-of-the-moment with a young intern in an office-setting, so Sanford's affair at least didn't have the same level of inappropriateness that Clinton's seemed to have. Also, his family already knew about it, this was an actual relationship with another women, he seemed forthright about it...I just see it as a lot less of my business than Clinton's deal was. I mean, getting a blowjob from a young intern in the oval office and fucking her with a cigar and then lying through your teeth about it on TV? I know if *I* fucked one of my interns in my office, I'd prob lose my job, lying or not. I'm not saying Clinton should have; I'm just saying Sanford's deal seems a lot more personal and I have a hard time justifying inserting it into the public realm. Again, I hate being in the positon of defending this guy, but I still just don't see what the big deal is. This just seems like a convenient excuse to get rid of him. There has got to be some better reasons to get rid of him. I mean, the guys a republican!

The dude loved climbing. He got to climb for the rest of his life, just like he wanted to. WIN

Minx:

im not sure i like the direction this conversation is taking

If I had two, I'd be an unstoppable force of awesomeness. Empires would fall.

lol, thanks Prole. I needed that

fuck yeah, man!

Strange.

Actually, we had a bomber hex (prob about 2'') in a bit below it, as well, to secure the belay. We didn't bring a number 4. We had a 3 but I don't think we used it anywhere, and if we did it was just to stick it somewhere.

Mike found a solid stopper placement (#10 I think?) nearby.

Trip: Ingalls Peak - East Ridge Date: 7/3/2009 Trip Report: Did east ridge with Mike Bell. There's plenty of beta out there, so I'll just add that the approach is mostly snow free, except for the basin under Ingalls. The climb is extremely soft for the grade. And, contrary to reports from summitpost, you can rap the south ridge with a 50m rope. Gear Notes: tennis shoes. Bring a *small* rack and long slings. We brought too much. I don't think we used anything over 2''. We did use a lot of stoppers.

FW, why were you never this hard on Bush? He inherited the presidency with a SURPLUS. Look the state he left it in. Did you avoid criticising him because he's a republican?

I skied this route about this time last year and the snow was heavily suncupped up high, and it was a really, really warm day.

oh FW, as much as you'd like to, you can't blame this on him. And, his predecessor wouldn't have done better, yet you never seemed to criticise *him*.

Besides, at least he seems to be honest about it. I kind of respect a guy who can say, "Yeah, this is what I did." He's not pulling any "that depends on what the definition of the word IS is" bullshit.

And some democrats preach about global warming and then go home to their mansions and leave the lights on. They're all suns-of-bitches, and they're mostly all so terrible at their job why do we need to bottom feed?

everybody's relationships are fucked up. I'm sick of people being judged by their personal affairs, and not on the quality of their work. This Sanford guy, didn't the republicans like him before they found out about his affair? He was all against the bailout and stuff, tried to refuse the money. It seems like they should love him. Who cares if he's having marital trouble? That's his personal business. He didn't break any laws, did he? And his recently exposed affair doesn't change his performance in the last few years; so if you ignore the affair, what's left? You either like the job he's been doing or you don't. The only real criticism would be that he ran off without telling anyone where he was going, I guess, but that seems like that should be forgivable. I don't like the guy, but at least it's because of his politics I don't like him, not because of his personal life. Who hasn't done crazy stupid shit?

Get a girl, and she'll talk you into cutting off your extra penis.

I just realized I don't even fit into this small group. I get out so infrequently, and you really have to climb a lot to keep your chops. There are probably TONS of guys like me out there, if you counted 5.7 and up. It's weird to realize that 5.7 was once a fairly high grade, whereas now it's basically a recreational level of climbing.

Man, sport or not, I'd take it. Maple, that's just, like, right down the street, right?

AAAHHHH! Are you kidding me?