rob

Beware Pat's mai tai. I'd have taken my underwear off, had I been wearing any.

I grow my own coffee. I got enough beans this year for ONE CUP! I grew my own tobacco once. It was nasty.

Actually, i'm pretty sure he's said as much to me before Well, it's not like anything KKK writes has any connection to reality so you shouldn't take it literally. Berating by any means possible those who say things he doesn't like is pretty much his entire purpose in spray. Doesn't 5K support state-workers' rights to collective bargaining? I thought I remember him at least arguing that state workers aren't the freeloading scumbags that other people on this site make them out to be. So he can't be ALL wrong, can he? Don't ALL of us berate other people who don't agree with what we say? I thought that was the game.

Hmm, no, I get that. Bit I think you're missing the point, though. How do you know if somebody asking for the data has good intentions? Make them check a box promising not to use the data to harass? If I want to prevent people from checking on my petition, all I have to do is have a friend threaten to harass my signatories and now it's secret? Sounds too easy. Sometimes privacy is less important than transparency. That's why political donations beyond a certain limit are public. And I don't. So I think you and I are done here. Aww...don't be like that. I'm not being mean to you, I'm just discussing. I think you're doing the right thing: you want privacy, so you refuse to sign petitions. What's wrong with that? You vote just like everyone else.

LOL. Funny how you never say that to your buddy rob, j_b or Ivan, or... Actually, i'm pretty sure he's said as much to me before

We're not talking about verifying legitimacy. We're talking about data-mining for nefarious purposes. A non-governmental agency charged with verifying the accuracy of legitimacy of the electoral process is one thing, and a thing which I believe everyone can support. But when any opponent of a petition can summon the personal information of the supporters of that petition (by invoking the PRA), what other purpose would there be in that if not to attempt to change those supporters' minds? And just how do you think those opponents might go about doing that? Could that be by harrassment, intimidation, and "uncomfortable conversations"...?? Which "non-governmental agency" gets "charged" to verify legitimacy? ANYONE should be able to verify legitimacy. That's how public democracy and transparency works. You shouldn't have a closed list of people who are "allowed" to challenge authenticity. How do you propose deciding who has the right to look at the signatories, and who doesn't? Who gets that make THAT decision? Exactly right. If you don't want people to know how you feel, then you shouldn't lobby a new ballot initiative by signing a petition. Or by donating more than $200.

Imagine how terrifying it would be if there were no non-government agency capable of verifying a petition's legitimacy, and therefore the legitimacy of the initiative on the ballot itself? Fucking terrifying.

My point was, this is not a new rule. It's not a "new, dark path." This information has always been public. This is just an upholding of an existing law. Nothing has changed. It's not a "secret ballot." It's a petition. Sure, if I sign a petition, that might show my hand regarding how I might vote. But if I donate money, that would do the same thing. Should political donors be secret now, too? You know, to protect them from harassment! Gimme a break. I have a right to know who in congress sponsored a bill, and I have a right to know who among the citizenry "sponsored" an initiative (by signing a petition). You really think that should be secret? Tempest in a teapot. http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php OH NO!!! PUBLIC DONATION RECORDS??!! Next come the "Sturmabteilung-esque" groups outside the polling booths!!!

I don't see the irony. I think you're just looking for it.

Looks like I'm right! http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Supreme_Court/supreme-court-rules-petition-signers-names-secret/story?id=11003913#.TtbWAbKd7Ks It's the gay haters who tried to block that, by filing suit in federal court. So "TTK's petition" didn't change existing law, it just defended it. Incidentally, the court did uphold sealing the names if harassment is an issue. They just didn't agree that it was, in this case. Additionally, it's hard to see how you can blame gay-rights advocates for this. IMO the SCOTUS ruled correctly on this issue, upholding a reasonable law. Why in the world should petition signer's names be private????

I'm not expert, but I think I gotta call B.S. People who sign petitions are ALWAYS public (as they damn well should be), except unless they can prove it will be dangerous for them to be public, which is what the gay-haters tried to claim.

State employees pay taxes, too. Does that make them self-employed?

Greqoire knows I502 is coming at her. She's knows we're gonna get the signatures, and she's gonna have to deal with this steaming pile of stankweed sooner than later. Better to get a jump on it. Plus...the public in med marijuana states is REALLY FUCKING CONFUSED about what the feds are up to right now. Everybody believs the feds are putting the cabash on med weed. From what I know, that is not accurate...although if you don't actually work for the DEA offices involved in the raids, there's no way to really know that for sure. The DEA, unfortunately, has recently closed some legitimate dispensaries here in the Seattle area (as well as some fraudulent ones). As far as I can tell, and they're being secretive about it, they're going after the dispensaries that are "most popular," regardless of anything else. I guess it pays to keep your head down.

Hate is bad, m'kay? Don't talk about it. Personally, I hope the bigots keep demonstrating their beliefs loudly and publicly for a long, long time. There is nothing worse than a closeted bigot. I'd like to know who they are.

Hmm, I've rapped the south ridge with a 50m rope without any trouble. I remember rapping down to the left (climber's right) and then rapping off some mank between boulders or something to the next station? Anyway, sounds like you guys figured it out. Cheers!

I imagine it will be dry by Saturday. I bet it will be cold, though.

so, a married man who has been accused of sexual harassment by three different women as well as a secret, 13 year affair with another is probably a "nice guy?" You sure know how to pick 'em, bill.

also, capital gains should be taxed as income

Most honest thing he's ever said

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/11/report-cain-reaccessing-campaign-/1

It would be nice to see congress take a pay cut, too. Or does only the proletariat have to make concessions?

For instance, I believe it was wrong to invade Iraq, but I also believe Bush thought he was doing the right thing. Isn't is possible to disagree with someone without assigning a completely disrespectful interpretation to their motives? I bet j_b isn't trying to destroy the country, for example.

Hey FW, if you're so unwilling to see anyone else's point, how can you expect them to try and see yours? Do you think it's possible that maybe public employees AREN'T merely lazy freeloaders and that maybe this is a complicated problem with lots of viewpoints? When you disagree with someone you should try to see things from their perspective, because it's possible to disagree with your opponent without deciding they must simply be a lazy freeloader who doesn't care about anyone else, you know?

Don't forget the governor's mansion. And staff.

Cain denies his penis is "that" small.