pup_on_the_mountain

Anyone know whether the weeping wall is in? Anything in Dayton (other side of the river)? I've not been watching the temps recently, but it looks plenty warm for the weekend . TIA

:tup: Your looooooooong list of climbs is a true inspiration. I'll consider myself lucky if I can get up 1% of everything you have done so far, in my entire life. BTW, I'm not sure if its just me (or my broser, mozilla), but your chart of mountaineering genealogy is hard to read.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. These jackets are quite pricey!! The local shop (Hyperspud) had a Montane Superfly eVent jacket in my size (previous model from what is given in the web page though). Going with the idea of supporting the local shop, and since John (at Hyperspud) cut me a deal ($250+tax), I bought it. Looks like it is designed more for climbing than the Thru Hiker (which I could try out at the same shop as well). Has four pockets, helmet-compatible hood, and runs as a low cut (wear harness over the jacket), and has space to have extra layers inside. The outer material is a 3-layer eVent ripstop, and felt slightly thicker than the material of the Thru Hiker. Hopefully, it'll take some rough use. John said Montane stopped selling stuff in the US a few months back, and were in the process of getting their permits reissued for the same. I'll come back after some use to report how the Superfly fares. If not for this jacket, I was going to get the OR Mentor jacket from the capitalists (REI), which is on sale for $279 (plus extra $20 off with the holiday coupon). This is not an eVent jacket (GoreTex Pro or something), but was in my price range.

The discussion on this thread has been focused on, as I interpret, Christianity v/s atheism, and also on evolution v/s creationism/ID as proposed by folks in the US or West. I won't be too off if I call it creationism/ID as proposed by Christians. At the same time, it might be interesting to note that there are other schools of philosophy, especially from the East, whose ideas of design might be way different from what we have been discussing (i.e., from the Bible), and might even have parallels to evolution! I'll throw out an interesting example, from Hinduism. I must admit beforehand, though, that I'm only familiar with a minute fraction of what is a humungous body of philosophy, which is Hinduism. I'm not shoving anything down your throat here, nor am I pointing a (or the) way. As part of my work, I do research in computational biology (DNA, protein structure, mutations, evolutionary trees etc.). All I want to say is that there are some really interesting streams of philosophy when it comes to creationism v/s evolution. Spray on bitches . Unlike most other religions, Hinduism does not have a single prophet/messiah or a single book of revelation. There are several sages and several books of revelation which have contributed to the majestic river of Hinduism. And there are numerous gods that are worshipped. Hinduism considers each individual as unique, and hence does not prescribe a common path to everybody, it rather encourages each individual to explore a path which is the most suitable to him/her. Still, there are three broad categories of human nature, and three corresponding paths for upliftment - based on (as interpreted in layman terms) devotion, intellect, and work/activity. According to Hinduism, individuals who fall in the last two categories (intellect and activity) may even appear atheistic. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (JCI religions) on the other hand, prescribe only the first option of devotion, and hence people who fall under the other two categories are not welcomed. One of the most quoted principles of Hinduism (as given in the book Bhagavat Gita) is "do your duty, do not think about the rewards". There is absolutely no implication in this principle that you must believe in God! The JCI religions all say that individuals go either to heaven or hell once they die. Hinduism, on the other hand, considers that each individual is in a process of evolution which is akin to Darwinian evolution. However, according to this view, beings evolve and adopt a body according to their past actions, and which is suitable for fulfilling their desires. Admittedly, human body is suitable for the most evolved beings, and here onwards, with no further evolution of body form, one has to make a conscious effort for further evolution and take the final jump to perfection. When one becomes qualified for the last stage, it is the 'cosmic' which descends onto the individual and this completely transforms him/her. Kabir (a famous 15th century poet) describes it as "getting in of the sea in a droplet". Till then beings have to undergo the repeated cycle of birth and death. Hindus' simile of the relation between creator and creation is that between a dancer and the dance and not that between a sculptor and his sculpture, as is done in JCI religions. This is to emphasize that the creator is embedded in its creation and is not separate somewhere. Unlike the declaration of an individual to be the 'only' son of God, Hinduism calls all human beings, and in fact, all living beings, as 'the children of Immortality'. On the other hand, perhaps the most celebrated philosophy coming from Hindiusm is that of 'Advaidta', which translates to "not two". It is interesting to note that this idea, in various forms, can be found in the philosophy of most other religions, including JCI. At the same time, Hinduism is one of the oldest religions. The gist is that "only God is truth and the concept of world is a false mental projection". Equivalently, "there is no heaven or hell or liberation, nothing but the Self in this expanded cosmic consciousness"! . Naturally, to many people Hinduism does not appear to be coherent and homogeneous. In the face of 'Advaitha', what is the deal with the numerous Gods worshipped by Hindus? Well, one explanation is that the concept of Advaita is so profound and deep, that its beyond the reach and comprehension of most common people. Hence, they created separate Gods for each function, such as wealth, stength, knowledge, war, art, etc. People worship the appropriate God, according to their choice or profession.

Thanks for the pointers Blake! I did goof up my question about the insulation part - what I wanted to ask was just about the windproofing. Although, my current shell is quite heavy, and it sucks so much in terms of breathability that it feels quite warm just to have it on for a while . Any ways, looks like the Thru Hiker is good for that aspect. I personally prefer wearing my harness over the jacket, so that I can access gear without having to push the jacket off the way. I had a follow up question as well. Looks like the Thru Hiker has only one (chest) pocket. Do people find this a drawback? My current jacket has four big pockets, but its heavier because of that as well.

Has any one been using it as your main shell? Hoe does it fare in cold conditions, especially with high winds? Wet snow? I currently have a TNF 3-layer GoreTex XCR jacket that is not working all that well any more. I'm looking to replace that jacket, and am considering the Thru Hiker. I'll be mostly using my jacket for ice and alpine climbing. Also, most eVENT wear seem much thinner and lighter than GoreTex, so how good is the ThruHiker (or for that matter, any eVENT jacket) when it comes to rough use (bushwhaking etc.)? TIA. For reference, check out this link.

Agree with you Tvash. I'll replace the "root cause" in my previous post with something like "major contributer", but the points still hold with this modification . Especially in the 20-21 centuries, where there are no big "Crusades" going on.

Where in Spokane?? Is it worth the trek from Pullman?

Looks (n)ice! Could you bless us with some details please ?

He's probably not trying to convert anyone, but he did talk about "sharing his faith". Religion, or more specifically the misuse of the same, is the root cause of a big majority of wars and fights that have happened all along the history of time (all over the world), and are still happening. The limited knowledge I have of the philosophy of God, and Life, and related topics, has been more than enough to convince me that these issues are profound, and are not easy to understand completely for most people, and hence the frequent misinterpretations by many. The need to "share the faith" doesn't help much either. Thus, I'm just wary about religion encroaching into an otherwise neutral activity such as mountaineering. I don't approve of any group of climbers supporting a politician either. Talking about labels, every now and then, people climb to raise money for some charity (The Peak Challenge in Colorado where they rasie money for the Emily Griffith Center for Cancer for instance). Now, thats a label I'll support gladly. If vertical_hiker's site was climbingforhelp.com, and the help meant raising some profits through the climbers, and giving all the profits to feed homeless children somewhere, I'd even consider joining him. Along that line, the question raised by Carolyn is key - what kind of "help" are they promising to offer any way?

Exactly! I do agree that everyone wants a label, and its the religious label that I've a problem with when it comes to climbing. Last I checked, Kerry was not a god. Was climbersforkerry.com formed just because Kerry followed or advocated a specific religion?

Then why is it climbingforchrist.com, and not something like climbingforfun.com? Note that I do not have anything against Christ itself. I would've complained even if it were climbingformoses.com, or climbingfor.com for whatever yourgod is.

IMO, the idea of "share the faith" (or "spread the faith") is the root cause of most problems. Unfortunately, this is a fundamental fault in the philosophy of several religions, including Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (often referred to as JCI religions in this context). The philosophy of certain other religions (such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism) advise letting the individual choose their own course, but then again, what the philosophy of a religion says, and how it gets interpreted, often have not matched. I believe that there is one faith/religion on the mountain - and that is mountaineering (or climbing). Compared to, for example, poor children in a third world country who are starving due to famine, the folks on the mountain are up there entirely by their choice, and not by fate. Of course, there are times when a climber or a team needs help - and as truthful followers of the "religion" of mountaineering, other people on the mountain offer them the required help. There is no need for another faith up there. On a related note, think about the sherpas and other people for whom the mountain is the livelihood. Its a religion for them if you want to call it that, they worship mountains as gods. At the same time, I didn't get the impression that they try to "share their faith" in the same way as some others do. Of course, VH has all the rights to advertise his mission. The web page makes it quite clear as well (as far as I can read), so its up to others to decide whether to participate or not. I personally would prefer not to see such endeavors though, just as much as I'd prefer not to see a basketballforchrist.com or soccerforallah.com or a runforbuddha.com.

C'mon Dan! There is no ice in WA. Only rumors.

Schweet!! :tup: Sounds like a lot more fun than going "ice scoping" up Mounties creek.

Wow!!! What an amazing adventure!! :tup: Thanks a ton for sharing.

Wow Rob!! Sorry to hear about your Dengue fever, but it looks like you're getting better already. Getting sick in a foreign country could be quite unnerving, at least you had your dear ones with you in such an unfortunate time. Hope you make it back ASAP. I climbed with Dan on Sunday for the first time since our rained out trip in Spring. We were talking about you. PS: BTW, the word "dengue" (as it sounds) means f**k in the slang of one of the South Indian languages. Along those lines, hope you didn't get dengued too badly by the dengue fever .

Thanks for pointing out that we can combine the offers. I just shelled out $150 to the Evil Capitalists, but then I'm getting a Marmot Needle jacket.

I realize this is the time of the year when most routes are either already out of shape, or not in shape yet. I've not been in the mountains for a long time though, and would like to go tomorrow and/or day after. The catch is that I need to get to Spokane airport by 10:00 pm on Friday and hence my options are somewhat limited. I was thinking something in/around the Colchuck area, depending on snow/avy conditions. I can hike in tomorrow afternoon. NBC might be doable (see TR from last weekend). PM or call me if any one wants to go (fi oh nine three three for fi for fi zero).

Me me me me too!! I have a pair of Scarpa Freneys that are 42. I've been trying to sell them for a while (same reason as Alex -- too narrow for my feet). They have seen not more than 2 days of ice action. I'll sell them for cheap..

Awesome job Rob!

I'm not coming to the IceFest, but would be interested in pitching in a few bucks for the cause of Hyalite Access. How can I do that? Send you a check? I see on the SMCC web page that I can become a paid member there, but I'm talking only about Hyalite here. Have fun all you punks . [font:Times New Roman]PS: Katie Bear, would you mind using a bigger font size? I'm almost blind.. [/font]

Following a related thread over at SummitPost, I thought I'd post here as well. Raymond Huey has some research papers on mountaineering. Do any of the UW folks here know/climb with Raymond? Interesting stuff. As mountaineers, would you question some of the assumptions made in his papers? Spray away...

This is your TR, right? Nice work BTW.

Good work gents!!