JosephH

Ah, the voice of reason. Nothing better than when the real you comes out - thank god you have cc as way to practice constructive, non-violent expression.

They have about a third of the staff and resources they once had and are responsible for managing the park as a whole. When they find themselves in the situation of needing to focus their staff on one thing and are no longer in a position to manage the entire park then they have to shut it down until they feel they can again resume their full responsibilities. That and it's likely there is wind damage all over the park, not just a problem with the tourist trail. Look, it isn't personal and they can't simply decide that hikers on Hamilton or climbers on the South Face can self-manage - they treat all user constituencies the same in times like this. Don't get your panties in a wad and instead just make an offer to help and wait it out, they'll open again as soon as they can.

MIght be a good time for the BRCA to ask if there's anything (as in entirely non-climbing related) they can do to help...

More likely from the estate of someone who stopped climbing quite a few years ago from the look of it.

Worth a read, by the doctor who originally coined the RICE mnemonic in '78.

Yeah, that was quite a day. A lot of prepwork went into setting up for it in order to get the track closed, a railroad crew to be on-site observing and fixing the signaling fence, and to have a specialized track calibration train come through and verify after the clean up. And that day's cleanup effort of the ridge was followed by two top-down cleaning sessions of YW. Hanging loose rock circled in orange The railroad guys understand rockfall happens, that it happens at Beacon due to the proximity, and they appreciate being given a heads up and help with clearing it when an active threat to their tracks exist. In this case there was an active threat to both climbers and the tracks, but we couldn't clear the threat to climbers without the park and railroad's involvement. And, yes, Bill (and Andy Fitz) being on the committee is a confidence booster.

Well, what you don't buy and what you outright fabricate would fill a shipping container so I can't really say I'm surprised by your comment. But if you think there's no risk to climbing access from Beacon rockfall onto one of the busiest rail corridors in the nation then, simply put, you are mistaken. And that doesn't even include the risk to climbers. The 2010 ridge tree rockfall which destroyed everything at the base of Young Warriors left endless rock and debris hanging above YW that would still be raining down on that route on a regular basis today if we hadn't organized a removal effort. But that you have no real interest in any form of managing the resource that requires actual initiative, cooperation, time and effort comes as no real surprise. Ah, the holy invocation of Opdyckian conspiracy theories - gotta love it (you are definitely the heir apparent on that front). Come on Steve, please do elaborate on and list out my 'secret agendas', I for one am dying to know what you think they are. For the record, I had and have only have one agenda: keeping Beacon routes from being retrobolted - my list of agendas begin and end there. Bummer that isn't the agenda of folks who are always claiming to be 'keeping it real', but seldom are in practice, when it matters, or whenever that requires anything more from them than talk. Same clueless shit, different day - again, no real surprise there.

It's the sheep who need to be doing the tracking.

You were a spectacle that day and I'm still bummed I don't have a video of you out jumping up and down on the point of that enormous spear... Yeah, we and the BRSP had a good working relationship with the railroad, but unfortunately WSDOT screwed the pooch a couple of years back with their Rt. 14 work up closer to White Salmon. They told the railroad they only needed to close the tracks for most of a day, but it ended up being more like sixty hours with traffic backed up to Chicago. That pissed the railroad off big time and now they want something on the order of three weeks notice for any stoppages so it's important to plan ahead for these things and get the BRSP involved early on so they can set it up. Haven't seen that one before, but a quick google for "oil train derailment' shows there's no shortage of hell being unleashed by oil trains of late and a bunch of them are now coming through Gorge on a daily basis. Veil of secrecy returns to oil trains in Pacific Northwest under new plan If a rockfall ever interrupts this oil traffic there will be hell to pay for sure - way, way better to be proactive with big loose stuff whenever possible. It's definitely in everyone's best interest that any rockfall that's going to potentially hit the track do so while the tracks are closed for that purpose with rail crews standing by to deal with it than something coming down through the signal fence on its own with everyone caught unaware and having to respond on a dime. And if folks really want to be involved with managing the resource at Beacon, then this is an explicit part of that job.

It apparently rocked a bit on Shane when he went by it recently.

Weather-wise I'd probably do that trip in reverse.

We've trundled bigger from higher - sick Bill on it, he'll jump up and down on it til it cuts and then surf it down to the tracks.

Steve is spot on here, but it's loose and could go at any time on someone even without a fall. Organizing to trundle it would probably be the smarter option.

Crikey dude, glad it was up there and not somewhere more vulnerable. Alive is as careful does...

Were just speaking about Tyler yesterday... Losing Tyler along with Vern Stiefel, Jim Anglin, and Mark Cartier has made for a couple of really tough years for the community - all are deeply missed.

The pin above was another case of knifeblades not really being appropriate out there. Anytime it can't take a bugaboo and there needs to be fixed pro at a spot then loose knifeblades should be swapped for a bolt. That tat anchor and nearby pins (along with replacing the Riverside anchor and tightening the left Pacific Rim anchor bolt) were the last of the unfinished business from the work done in 2005-7. And as Topher says, the blackberries through that swath haven't seen a cleaning since I last did it in last in 2008. Anyone heading out and so inclined should feel free to wail away on them all. In this case I agree with Steve and think - once a fix-hardware management plan is in place, with a way to submit and vote on proposals - that chopping this anchor would be a good first proposal. The only detail I'd disagree with is I'd say the top pin should stay in case someone does go that way. I can also think of a bunch of other anchors I'd personally chop, but any and all such actions should be proposed, discussed and voted on before being submitted to the WSP as draft recommendations for approval. Again, anyone who wants to see a successful example of such a community-based management system can check out the Action Committee for Eldo (ACE) The Fixed Hardware Review Committee for details.

That was the case in all the other small / medium angles that didn't go back in. The only concern here is the fact it's the first piece off the anchor, but I'm willing to defer to your judgment given you did the moves without it... ----------------------- Later edit: you have so little rope out at that point it makes for a pretty hard fall onto a piece that's rated 5 kN and that's only if it's in a truck placement. That's cutting it a little thin no matter how you wiggle the numbers on the FF calculator. We should probably still check it out and consider something fixed if that's the best piece that can be had...

You're welcome, would love to share a beer if we do... Hmmm. I guess I came up different, with different motivations, and in a different place where few people climbed and everything we touched was an FA. I was also climbing before I was walking and it's always been more about obsession / needing than wanting to climb. Bottom line is I don't climb for other people and it should be fairly obvious by now that 'popularity' isn't super high on my priority list; in fact, it isn't even on the list when doing an FA. But I get the rationale of throwing sport climbers a bone out there on YW p1 given the time, but I still consider it a mistaken thinking. I don't know, is B-Y considered a "classic"? The Rostrum? Astroman? How about Blood, Sweat and Smears? Borderline? If so, they don't see much traffic. And I suspect the definition of "classic" is a constantly 'evolving' concept that's seen a lot more acceleration in recent times then in that past. In fact, adding the adjective "modern" speaks to an almost ADA definition of accessibility and safety. Umm, you're conflating a couple of things here. It could / should be a more challenging route in my eyes. And that it stays clean is another issue altogether. If folks would just take responsibility for giving a couple of lines the once over on open they'd all stay clean as well. I was a little aghast to hit YW and find the cam, bail sling, and X'ed loose rock still there, dirt-clogged placements, thorn brambles, and a lot of general loose rock on it. So I went out and did a run up it and cleaned all that shit up. Wasn't a big deal because I both like the route and it's not that much of an inconvenience, but hey, if no one can be bothered... You and I, Karsten and I, Jason and Tri-cities Ken and I, and Cartier and I are the only ascents I know of other than Michael Layton and Marcus Donaldson weaving in and out of it. I'm totally cool with that and don't see any downside whatsoever in the lack of traffic. It is what it is. I have no idea what your thoughts on my viewpoint might be, but as I replied to Ivan above, my climbing is entirely internally driven and my FA's more a matter of outright obsession and utterly devoid of any and all outside considerations beyond the FA itself. If an FA of mine gets climbed again by myself or others, so be it, if not, that's cool too. I just don't think in terms of 'traffic' or 'popularity', but rather of aesthetics, technicality, quality and rhythm of movement, the challenges of protection and doing the FA with the least impact possible - and those are all utterly ancillary to just obsessing over something that's caught my eye. What comes after is pretty much irrelevant to me and will unfold on its own. If someone else gets similarly caught by the same quirky obsession or just gets curious about what's up on a truly remarkable part of Beacon then they'll find their way on their own - or not. Again, how many times does BSS, Flying Circus, Borderline, The Norseman or Windwalker get climbed? Should they be transformed into "modern classics" for the sake of popularity and a higher traffic metric? I don't think so. I personally see remarkably high value in those low traffic metrics. My wife lost most of the use of both arms to an unusual and severe case of double 'frozen shoulder' for several years not long after the LW tree came down and while I was working on Menopause. I gave up pretty much all activities other than working (from home nights) and caring for her during the day for a long time and our lives have only recently returned to 'normal' such that any of this is even remotely on my radar. I could manage dashes to DZ and the odd go up FFA or YW and that was it, so no goes on LW or MP during the past few years. That said, I do intend to get back on LW and see what the toll of all the rockfall was and I also want another (probably last) shot at the Menopause FA. For me it's not a matter of there being room for both ways in the world; it's a matter of one way is antithetically driven more by group entertainment and social acknowledgment needs which unavoidably come at the expense of rock. The incursion of those [suburban] requirements into alpine settings is even more disturbing than the insatiable drive to bolt every rock within two hours of every major metropolitan city and the increasing pressure to dumb down existing routes by retrobolting. If it weren't for the insatiable aspect of 'the other way' then I'd have no problem with it. As it is, I just find it sad and am glad I'm old as the encroachment and degradation is only going to get worse. In the end, I personally go climbing to ditch the world and hordes around me, not to join them at outdoor gyms. One of the remarkable things I noticed in my time in Scandinavia was the fact that in the summer everyone decamped from the cities and moved en masse to these massive sprawling campgrounds where they were way tighter and even more clusterfucked than they were downtown. Go figure. It's human nature I guess, but not something I care to be any part of at all - it's just not why I climb and in general you're not going to find me doing anything to drive or encourage 'community', 'popularity' or crowding. I'm more into protecting the "classic" nature of what trad climbs we have locally, and particularly at Beacon which is more or less a trad oasis in an ocean of sport climbing.

Well, I don't know, was the thread a request for honest discussion or feckless praise? And I definitely wouldn't have done YW the way it was put up either. Again, I find the rationales (and thread title) almost more troubling than the actual route and alpine settings are literally the last places on Earth that need 'routesetting' and sport climbs. Do love the code-wording involved with "modern classic", though.

Alpine 'routesetters' - crikey, just what the world needs. And even if one supports the idea of such suburban alpine pleasures, the stated rationales above are mostly a matter of bias, decidedly weak, or just wrong. Can a paved road, parking lot and McDonalds be far behind...

Well, just when I thought it must be a sure sign of the End Days because I agreed with something Steve said, he then proceeds to edit his post to remove that same 'Yosemite-training-ground-and-pins' part of his post. I agreed with.

That was not a dig at you, just an observation that, other than the occasional clear cutting and terraforming, no one can be bothered to actually maintain the fixed pro, clear all the loose rock on open, or deal with things like your block. I did buy $80 worth of stuff to fix that block when we first talked about it, but then got too bummed by the nonsense happening at the time. You come with me and I'd be happy to do it.

I have the grigri you left at the base...

Sure, that's definitely the default answer if no one is going to actually maintain the place. Anything is possible, but it again, that sort of maintenance takes time away from climbing, money and effort. How many locals have done how many laps on it already without doing a damn thing about it? Ditto for the stuck cam, X-ed block and bail sling on YW - how many laps by locals who are oh-so-concerned-about-Beacon without anyone being able to be bothered with cleaning them up? Etc, etc...

Queue the painfully predictable wailing... No, you'd been assured that the pins out-performed the bolts out there and that all fixed pro needs to be maintained. Maybe this rings a bell from the top of this page: And it should be noted that the only reason those guys are alive is I replaced that anchor which was the very worst anchor out there - it's the one where the right bolt broke under just the weight of the breaker bar resting on it as I readjusted my leash and the left bolt broke with a quarter turn of the bar and I hadn't even started to apply any pressure at all - i.e. the bolts were way, way worse than the pins at the time I replaced the anchor and checked the pins. Had they fallen on that anchor they'd now be dead because it wouldn't have held back then, let alone now, nine years later. And, if two pins have come loose (this one and the one on Flying Dutchman) in nine and ten years respectively, then you can bet your ass at least an equal number of bolts or more have gone bad out there in that same time period as well. But wtf, make Kevin's day and sport bolt the place. Why the fuck would anyone want to preserve Beacon's essential character anyway? I mean, what's the fucking point given it takes time and effort to actually manage the place versus endlessly whining about it.