JosephH

Yeah, people who shouldn't be climbing.

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Well, as with Kevin's claim of saying one thing and doing another, please do cite an instance, otherwise it's just more of your whole-fabric-from-the-ether, overly-dramatic mewling. I mean, WTF, for a bunch of guys who like to spout "keeping it real", you rarely if ever do.

Why would you want to in such a circumstance...? To reap the benefits of an autolocking belay device...because its easy and allows you to multitask, in other words. Is that what you mean? Personally I don't define "easy" or "allows you to multitask" as 'benefits' when it comes to belaying - quite the contrary - 99% of the time multitasking is the last thing anyone should be doing when belaying.

Well, there you have it - but there's going to be sad February firsts lined up as far as the eye can see if you can't figure out the target audience who has the ultimate authority to act on the closure and sort out what they'd want to move off the mark. Just sayin'... [ P.S. I'd also love to know the secret of how all you professionals and business people get by without marketing and sales 101 because I'd sure like to be able to quit having to market and sell to keep my business alive... ]

Why would you want to in such a circumstance...?

All the pins were on the South Face were checked and either deemed good, reset, or replaced in 2007 - the replacements came from John Middendorf's spare pin rack. The only two pins that are likely still dubious are a) the first pin on YW (it was never really been a great placement), and b) the angle on the fourth pitch of YW (it's the best placement you can do in that spot, but I suspect it would pop in a fall). More likely they just don't like pins, but if two have gone bad since then, and those spots will take a medium or large LA, Bugaboo, or Soft Euro pin then just either reset them, or, if they're really corroded, replace them with new ones.

Hopefully it was the poison oak in the cracks that was burning, the best solution really.

Dark greenish, unspeakably rancid, possibly abandoned. Brought home in the bottom of a rope bag between two layers of vegetation as my partner literally wouldn't get within eight feet of it. Now, after long soak in a hot vinegar bath to spare our washing machine, it is powder puff fresh. Some burn holes. May or may not be related to found bail gear as it was in a different place.

Old schoolish looking...

Well, if a group of "professionals and business people" can't answer that simple question and identify their target audience (hint, it isn't climbers), then that might explain the lack of any coherent attempt to market or sell their idea to the people who count. Can't sell'em if you don't know who the target audience is, but then an astute bunch of professionals such as yourselves know that.

Or, it could be pretty much exactly like Eldo's ACE (but, hey, don't strain yourself by clicking on this link), and my opinion wouldn't count any more than anyone else's. But then I'm sure you guys have of course thoroughly checked out that approach as an example where climbers and state parks have a good working relationship (and rejected it out-of-hand), right? Hell, pink is right there, maybe he could check it out for you or you could visit pink and meet the ACE crew and get their firsthand opinion and experience - I'm guessing they'd be more than happy to sit down with you if you gave them a shout. Wow. I'm can only guess that you somehow missed the fact that's what the 'A' in CAB stands for - yep, wait for it - 'Advisory'. But that's right, you guys don't do no stinking 'advising', nope, you jump right to claiming you have the formal authority to grant people permission to [retro-]bolt; cool, even if that's yet another 'convenient fact' you snatched straight out of the ether. And given that 'advisory' role is clearly described in the existing, if woefully out-of-date CMP, I'm guessing you either decided it wasn't worth the read, didn't understand it, or didn't like it and so decided just making up shit you did like was the way to go (not to mention more fun and a long tradition). And then of course, there's that irritatingly pesky detail where the park's budget and staff have been progressively slashed to nothing over the past few years and doubled workloads in the process. And in that workload (I'm pretty sure we can all agree) climbing concerns in general and an updated CMP in particular have naturally shot to the very top of the WSP and BRSP list of urgent priorities half of which they don't have the budget or staff to address. Yeah, sure, that's it, any idiot can see that. So yeah, in short, posts like yours actually do make you out to be "a belligerent fuck the man fuck", but then I also get that's entirely lost on you. I don't know, the only thing I've seen lately is people repeatedly putting boots up their own asses. But, what the hell, it is for a good cause. And "blood on their hands", jesus, what uber dramatic bullshit that is. Hey, if you want to prevent some blood letting, try cutting back all the way over-extended studs on Stone Soup that would rip you to shreds if you fell against any of them. And exactly what has the BRCA done about fixed anchors and pro in the several years you rehydrated it? Done a fixed pro survey? Identified bad pro? Come up with a fixed anchor management component to an updated CMP? Of course not. Again, might want to take a look at what ACE does in Eldo (OMG, it's that frigging link again!). And speaking of causes, hell, maybe this would be a good time to take a shot at tackling THE gleaming $64,000 question... Anyone?

Please, do cite an instance of that... Well you claim to follow all the rules but i know you have illegally smoked hash out at Beacon. That's one. a) Where did I claim to follow all the rules? b) Last I checked hash was legal out there (if we're getting technical...).

Please, do cite an instance of that...

Total bullshit. Which single one of the things I mentioned above have you guys ever once agreed with, embraced, or bothered to act upon in good faith? Really, I'm all ears. I like almost all of you guys individually, but collectively? You are your own worst enemies when it comes to the closure. The only thing you succeed at is repeatedly jeopardizing both your own aims and early opens (the only thing I really care about at this point). Sorry, came up elsewhere and not really subject to the local reality distortion field that keeps you guys from working in your own best interest. And if that means my sticking to what I believe puts me odd man out then so be it, I'm completely cool with that at this point. Well, for one I readily admit I was completely wrong thinking you guys would be willing to approach any of this objectively while operating from facts and in good faith. Dead wrong. And if you want to point out where I'm wrong on my facts or understanding of the science, law or policy please do feel more than free to do so.

Actually I've brought endless 'positive' things to the conversation; admittedly they are unpalatable things like how about being objective, open, honest, transparent, and cooperative. Really awful things like suggestions that Beacon climbers be informed and understand the science, law, policies and regulations. Also some truly repugnant things like understanding how the agencies work, who the human beings are that do that work, and establishing mutually beneficial, trusted working relationships with them and the railroad. And I suppose you don't consider early opens positive though even if you do I clearly had no involvement in helping secure any of them. So yeah, nothing positive - ever. But let's be excruciatingly clear - all of those things were repeatedly rejected out-of-hand again and again and in their place I see nothing but wailing victimhood; incessant whining; wishful thinking; a totally bad-faith, disingenuous and antagonistic approach to the dealing with the issues; not to mention one uninformed and ill-advised antic after another which just keep on solidly working against your own stated interest. But hey, I gave up long ago so be my guest, by all means do keep banging your heads against that wall because, hey, you know, some Feb 1st it's going to just automagically work out for you because, doggone it, you're nice people and its all so unfair. Well, now that you mention it, I do.

So asking if you even still climb or the possibility of a CO TR if you do is an insult? Just checking, as you were a pretty impressive climber, but ok, whatev. Wow. A compliment! more of a disclaimer Actually, it's meant as a genuine compliment. Whether I agree with everything Kevin says or not, he's straight up, doesn't just make shit up, says what he believes, and believes what he says. As voices go, it's pretty hard not to appreciate such a refreshing, if scarce, commodity.

Sorry, too busy climbing. Is that it? Kind of sad really, we both know you have and can do better (but hey, you have been getting pretty good at that photoshopping business over time).

Couldn't have that more wrong...but then that's no surprise and nothing new - carry on with the inanity from afar. And when was the last time you were up something in GoG, Eldo or RMNP? They're right frigging there for gods sake and not closed. Maybe post up a TR or something.

It was totally cool. So was Tokyo Tower and the five days of interrogation; picked the wrong one that time given my buddy Doug Allen was partied up huge for a week in Paris after doing the Eiffel Tower...

Geoff, I do get it that you guys needed a play / angle for the court after a making a boneheaded move like heading up the West Face deliberately breaking the closure. But if what you are claiming is that you, or any other person who calls himself a 'Beacon local' or a founding BRCA member, didn't know the West Face was closed to climbing that day then you and I know that is pure unadulterated bullshit and a baldface lie and not even a good one. And, like the Wild-Turkeys-we-had-authority-to-permit-bolting episode, it just makes you look either bumbling, amateurishly incompetent, or plain dishonest to the people who count. I mean, sure, you can convince a judge maybe, and lean on the notice technicality, but do you think the WSP/BRSP or WDFW staff who count relative to the closure are fooled for a millisecond? Seriously? And it's especially embarrassing when you have this up on the BRCA Facebook page: Again, ill-advised lawyering at best, more of the same at worst. It's a comitragedy that you guys can't see just how much you are your own worst enemy when operating in bad faith and less than honestly. Worse, each one of these successive flea circus hijinks just takes you farther and farther from your stated goals (sorry, make that 'goal' in the singular extreme). P.S. Still admire Kevin for his consistent and refreshing honesty in all this: fuck the birds, fuck the closure, it's all total bullshit and completely unfair...

It's hard to see from the pics, but it's formed by the arching left side of the lower great arch; everything right of that is on the East Face proper and you're up under the roofs at the base. On that note,I tried to ignore,... There is something about the left East Face closure demarc you have a problem with? Please, by all means, do tell... Deliberate requires knowledge. Knowledge requires notice. I'd be curious to know what even makes you think there was a West face closure in effect. Geoff, seriously? I mean really, that's your play, that it's an unnanounced secret that the West Face is closed? That some fault in the technical definition of 'notice' means someone who has previously been cited for breaking the closure didn't know about the closures because of a technicality in the noticing. That's ludicrously beyond disengenuous; it's fatuous and just furthers the obvious - that you aren't vaguely interested operating in good faith to cooperatively manage the resource but instead chosen to adopt an adverse relationship. From the WSP Beacon website: What a surprise!!! That couldn't possibly be because we know who's involved with AF/AC/AAC locally and that they're totally indoctrinated into taking an adverse vs. cooperative approach to the issues and the WCC and AF national don't have a clue about what's really going on. Again, specious and disengenuous at best and I would have thought you smarter than to aid and abett this utterly pointless adverse approach - you're just hardening and retrenching the agencies' position with every one of these shenanigans and manuveours as they, and your sole intent, are so completely transparent. You'll never get the closure lifted this way; at best you'll just get the WSP and WDFW to lawyer up which will just further piss them off. We can only hope so for the sake of the plumbing in your house... On the contrived technical basis they "didn't know" the face was closed? Now that's funny... Exactly. I sadly see no end to the BS (and now misplaced lawyering)... PS Better scrub your FB and blog of all mention of the West Face closure

Don't want to do that, it's basically my favorite stuff on cc and kind of helped get me through the last couple of years.

It's hard to see from the pics, but it's formed by the arching left side of the lower great arch; everything right of that is on the East Face proper and you're up under the roofs at the base.