JosephH

I use a Metolius "Big Wall" double sling with a very small pouch on the back - the single vs. multi-loop one: Metolius Big Wall Gear Sling I rack protection small to large, front to back on the right sling with stoppers sorted by size on the four biners in the front, cams are after that one to a biner. [Trad] draws on the left sling, free biners on the two shoulder strap loops, long slings over my shoulder. This is a very, very comfortable and balanced rack and you can either put wallet, keys, food bar or a water bladder in the pouch. Wouldn't go back to another way of racking for any reason. P.S. I also never liked racking on my harness - gives me the willies for some reason...

Reading Hal's comment, I realize I should be clearer about my comment on "toothed" devices. I agree with Hal and others that in a solo TR situation (which I've done next to none of...) a Petzl Traxion device or any other device with teeth would probably be just fine - it's really only an issue with lead falls and even then it's just a matter of shredding your sheath, the device will still stop you.

Hi all, Yes, I've done a lot of roped soloing (free and aid) over the years and the bottom line for me is I always feel horrified the first pitch or two, or the first half hour (whichever is shorter) and then the experience just transforms into one that's utterly and completely sublime and serene - even better if no one else is around. However, keep in mind it is also an exceptionally clear and powerful mirror that on more than one occassion has sent me packing from the rock because it showed me I didn't have my shit together that day. It is as self-reliant as you can get without ditching the rope and free soloing and for the right folks I highly recommend it. It is also faster than climbing with a partner once you have an act down with it. As far as how can you tell if you should do a roped solo - you'll know because one day partnering won't work out and it will either be rope soloing, bouldering, or going home - which you choose to do will probably be pretty definitive. I started roped soloing during my first trip to Boulder in '75. I'd call people from the climbers board at Boulder Mountaineering and have a great conversation, set up a time to meet, and then just before hanging up they'd ask me where I was from and I'd say, "Illinois", and suddenly they'd remember a dental appointment. On a day that happened I saw the Yosemite Roped Solo (YSR) technique in a book at the store and said, well, what the hell. I had planned on going up to Castle Rock in Boulder Canyon so went up there and ended up using some slings for aiders and giving it a whirl on "The Aid Roof". Never having aided before, I ended up a swirling, comedic mass of rope and slings (a nearby belayer almost dropped his partner he was laughing so hard). I ended up dropping back to the ground with the middle of the rope, re-aided it, and finally figured it all out. The next day I did the Bastille Crack and ran into Brashears and Wunsch at the top while they were working on "Rain" and got to give the crux on that a whirl as well and after that had no problem with partners - but I've been in love with roped soloing ever since. And really, my first real roped solo on the Bastille Crack (with just nuts back then) is probably still one of my fondest climbing experiences (repeated whenever I'm through there). Anyway, that's how I got started with it, fustration and desperation... So here is a pointer to another thread where I describe the method I now use after Bud Smith finally convinced me to switch over to his method. Now that I have a bunch of experience with it I agree with DWR and Dru relative to going steel with the device attachment to the harness to guard against crossloading. I am very, very precise and specific about the grigri placement on the belay loop and its orientation to me, the rope, and the harness - I further monitor the relative positions of all these components all the time. I'd be more inclined to set it and forget it with steel. But you should be aware that regardless of the technique or device, you need to pay attention to and constantly monitor all device/rope/harness interations - not to the point of preoccupation, just be aware of what's going on as crossloading in a fall is a real concern with the use of any device regardless of the solo technique. Link to thread with post describing my (Bud Smith's) roped solo technique with a grigr As far as rope drag, yeah you have to deal with it, but it's never been a problem at all. I use an unmodified grigri and haven't been at all motivated to mod it due to rope drag. One technical note: you should use some form of Screamer/Air Voyager between your anchors and rope end when leading with roped solo devices. And with regard to other devices: I do have Petzl Mini- and Pro-Traxions, but I hesitate to use them exactly because of the barbed teeth Kevin mentioned will probably do some shredding. I'm not familiar with the Rocker or Ushba device Dru mentioned but I'd be inclined to trust his judgment. My partner for years has used a Soloist for top ropes and leads and generally likes it (or at least still uses it). I personally don't like the whole chest harness arrangement it requires. The Silent Partner really looks like the way to go other than a) it's bigger than a breadbox and b) Packing a device out to the rock that is only used for roped soloing almost too explicitly states "I'm going out to solo" - and to be honest, some days are like that, but most of the times I like to leave my options pretty loose and and do what I feel like when I get there - a grigri more implicitly advertises simply the possibility. Bill's simple approach of dropping a separate rope down the cliff works on short TR-size cliffs. There are lot's of ways to TR it with devices: prusik (sucks), Soloist, Petzl Shunt, Grigri, Mini-Traxion, etc. You can also tie figure eights every so often in it and put two draws (preferrably with lockers on your side) on your belay loop and leap frog them up the knots. You can also lead this way if you'd rather not place pro. Lead normally clipping the figure eights like they were bolts. A lot of these types of approaches to solo TR work better if the bottom of the rope is anchored or weighted (I prefer weighted); but never so tight the rope won't go through mechanical devices if you're using one (though if your leading and clipping an anchored line you may want to fix the bottom to insure the clips will be available). Enjoy - feel free to ask any other questions here or pm me. And if we can do a clinic next summer out at Beacon if anyone is interested...

Thrill, On reviewing your posts I have to admit you say some great things in between the boorish comments like this one...

This is another example of folks wanting to simply replicate their gym experience outdoors, eliminate risk, and insure success (and a limit version of it at best). One aspect of doing FA's that never really gets discussed much is that to do them one has to be self-responsible and capable of mapping their abilities to rock with no external assistance. This really extends beyond FA's in that you should strive to be able to walk up to a rock and have a rough idea whether your abilities are in the ball park to climb it. I mostly see people these days taking their "gym rating" and translating that to an outdoor area's ratings and then exclusively using guidebooks and ratings to decide what to climb. I'd very much recommend the next time you go to a new area use the guidebook to get you there and understand the layout, but then leave it behind and just walk the routes and do some. Will you always choose right? Will you always get up everything you choose? No, but you'll begin the process of connecting what you know about your abilities with what you see when you look at the rock. Hell, you might even epic, but that ability to find your own way on rock relative to (or pushing) your abilities without beta is a highly desirable thing to acquire.

Michael, That might be possible if Gary had partners or the gym was run by a larger corporation, but that's not the case and it only stands at all because Gary has proven himself capable of keeping his eye on the ball and doggedly pursuing the goal of a new gym for years. Attempt after attempt fell through either because the city or neighborhood blocked the siting of a new gym at a given locale. Gary dropped a LOT of coin on studies during those attempts to please the city and/or neighborhoods but to no avail. All the previous attempts were leasing with lease partners some of whom backed out. He finally just bought a piece of ground so he wouldn't be dependent on another flakey lease partner. He then ponied up everything he has in the world and then some to make the new PRG happen. If it doesn't succeed, he and his family will not fair well. He has, as the expression goes, "run it out" on this venue and that requires no less balls than it does on rock. So I'm inclined to cut him a lot of slack, even if I ultimately don't like the choices he makes relative to his business...

I didn't take it, but my partner once went over a roof on Metamorphosis (5.10a R) in Eldorado when the route actually went right around the roof. The roof was a one-way move stranding him on a 1" ledge with no more moves available. He was out about 40' off an old lost arrow. After about three tries at moving up he jumped. This was back in the days of hip belays and his belayer hadn't braced a knee against the wall and so got banged into the wall good resulting in being stunned for long enough to let the rope run. That resulted in third degree burns and a longer fall that was stopped by the knot I tied in their rope to join them after arriving late. I measured to the knot afterwards and it was 110'. He stopped about 15' short of the big ledge, but said it was the softest fall he'd ever taken though he did scrape the back of his thumb on the way back up from all that rope stretch. Our partner on the otherhand needed a trip to the ER and was done climbing for awhile.

Well, I've been climbing at PRG since it was over on 26 in Beaverton and I've followed Gary's 4-5 year saga to site/finance a new gym pretty closely and feel I owe it to him to see if things don't change a bit for the better. So I signed up for a month at PRG and will see if anything changes - I'm headed for Red Rocks (Epinephrine) when it runs out in mid-Nov. and then I'll decide what to do for the winter. I'm hoping to see things change a bit personally, but it could be that it is actually working for them from a business perspective and Gary actually has put everything on the line building this gym so that's cool too if that's the way it works out.

Hi Carolyn, My old partner recently moved back to Hudson,WI across the river from Moscow, ID. I suspect he's always looking for unsuspecting victims, I mean partners to climb with. He teachs at UWRF and I believe is doing some sort of study at an area called Red Wing. I'll pm you with his email. Give a shout the next time you come through the Gorge/PDX and we'll take you to Beacon (and give you a windsurfing session if you'd like).

Hi Michael, Welcome aboard as well. I have to second Bill's comments relative to the appropriateness of the forum for discussing PRG issues. This is our community such as it is and it provides you and Gary with something most business owners spend a lot of money to acquire: a window into the marketplace. It may not always be a clear window, you may not always like what you see, and this window may not always look in on your full demographic; but it provides valuable insight and feedback nonetheless. I would encourage you folks to take advantage of it. Bill is also a business owner and I suspect he and his partners would love the opportunity to learn from their customers in the way you can here. Bill already mentioned my discussion with Gary, but let me rehash it here for a moment: First off, Bill is not a "pussie" as his self-deprecating comments might suggest (or if he is one, he's an old, bold, sandbagging pussie that takes long runouts over dubious terrain [you've all been warned]) - so I think in seconding my desire to see a laptrack up the overhanging wall at all times is not coming from the "can't get up those routes" perspective. And to be completely honest, and with no disrespect, I come to the gym to train, not climb - for me that happens outside on real rocks - so I'm looking for a training circuit that includes [at least one] a steep, overhanging jug route that I can do laps on. I'll do the hard routes as well, but warming up and cooling down, and more important, for endurance, I'm always going to be after yardage on steep walls. The day I came in and saw Gary recently I counted the number of routes under 5.10 in the "big room" from the corner right of the storage closet on around to the bouldering entrance and it was only 7 out of 37; and the ratio of 5.11-5.12 to 5.10 was fairly steep out of the 30. I don't know your demographics, but pretty much that leaves folks learning to climb with a big gap between the learning routes in the area you first walk into on entering and all these tougher climbs in the "big room". I would imagine that makes it somewhat intimidating and less-than-inclusive for people trying to move their skills up from the 5.7 range. Routes in the 5.8-.9 range are "dual-purpose" from the standpoint of providing a viable path for folks just learning to progress and as endurance laptracks for people trying to get back in shape or work on their endurance for multi-pitch routes. So my specifc request to Gary, that I've repeated ever since the gym was over on 26 in Beaverton, is to always have a 5.8-.9 "jug route" on each major wall section - particularly the the steep ones. You'll know it's right if you can get up and down it a couple of times without touching ground. And just to reiterate, we aren't making the request simply as old guys that can't cut it on the grades. Bill, Karsten, and I have recently put up (with assistance from Jim Opdyke (p1) and Marco Fedrizzi (p2) a multi-pitch route that goes at either 5.11c R or 5.10c R- C2/3. Bill and I alone have 60 years experience and a bunch of FA/FFA's between us and have a pretty good feel for what makes sense relative to keeping a life-long act together with climbing. Also (not speaking for Bill), in my thirty years I've had to occasionally focus on other things in life and then, on returning to climbing, had to come way back to get in shape again and have a pretty good sense of the process - and those laptracks are key to doing it quickly. That this is a prennial request I have to make sometimes leaves me to wonder if your route setters aren't simply entertaining themselves rather than focusing on the needs of your clients. But, then again, I could be completely wrong and you guys get by just fine on a stable base of the high-end gym/sport climber set.

I know the crew involved (if it is in fact the same line) and they have worked that route over several years and if they resorted to a bolt then there was no other conceivable option - these aren't rap bolters, they are bold and gifted free climbers who wouldn't do it otherwise.

Any of you folks know anything about the prominent fin or rock exactly 1 mile east of Multnomah Falls and fairly high up? It looks curiously good, but then so has a bunch of other features I've hiked into only to find choss.

The latest fauna find out at Beacon today - a scorpion. Whodaguessed? Not a big one, but it was a bit of a surprise...

The French boredom threshold is no doubt a bit lower than in the U.S. - or they just figured out a sure-fire answer to their access problems. Who knows, maybe trad climbing will even return to its former definition of just "climbing"...

Anyone game...

So long as the duct tape on the rope will pull through the bieners without catching too much it's probably still fine.

With the rope in a pack and the grigri it really isn't much of a clusterfuck at all. The YRS method with all the knots definitely was, but once you get either technique down it all goes pretty clean, straightforward, and fast (given there are no belays). I can climb the pitches twice (lead and clean) faster alone than with a partner. I will say though that, inspite of doing it for 30 years, it consistently still scares me pissless for the first half hour (or two pitches) of each climb at the beginning of each season, but after that it just gets utterly sublime and dreamy. Whenever the last full moon was I ended going out to Beacon late, doing four pitches and finishing up the route and two full raps by its light. Had the place to myself and it was just so still and lit up, yet alive with all sorts of beasts fluttering about and noises that I had to hang at the top rap station for quite a while to take it all in. I like climbing with partners, but it's a whole other dimension for me and I can't imagine my climbing experience without these quiet and wholly self-reliant sessions in the mix on a semi-regular basis. Not looking forward to the prospect of moving into the gym for the winter...

I'm with Dru on this one... I can only speak for myself, but I either roped solo or free solo; in general, I don't allow for any middle ground as you are introducing both ambiguity and uncertainty I'm not comfortable with. What if you get into the middle of it and can't deal but there is no pro to be had? At what point in the possibly sudden sketchfest do you whip out your self belay system? You make a lot of assumptions about life in general if you leave on an unknown free solo with the idea that you'll have the judgment, calm, and possibility of protection if you start to sketch - too many for me, ambiguities and assumptions like those scare me worse than the free solo generally. There is also the lingering trade-off question of: would I better off and safer if I just kept free soloing or if I get out the gear - hey, who knows, you might "lose your nerve" just because you have the gear and try to whip it out at a time when you would have been way, way better off to keep on moving. Dean Potter does this on his mixed solos, but he knows when, what, why, where, and how to use that rope before he leaves the ground on those routes. For me, if I know the route I know whether to free or rope. If I don't know the route and I can't tell from looking at it and I don't get the "right" smell or feeling about it all I rope up - the only time I end up in the in-between state is when I've been "caught" and that has never been a good feeling or a good day (except living through it)...

You most likely would never be bothering anyone on the two lines left of Windsurfer out at Beacon.

I did a roped solo aid run up "Free For Some" out at Beacon a couple of weeks ago when I forgot things I needed to roped solo free climb (like my shoes, grigri, pack, etc.) - it was actually a lot of fun. Pipeline or the two lines immediately left of Windsurfer would fit the bill, as well. I suspect most of Broughton would be fine and Bill Coe could probably speak to Rocky Butte.

Mattp, Ok, you got me - I should have said "Direct as always, BUT pretty much spot on...". Hey, this is Dru we're talking about, a little sensitivity please...

Where do you want them sent...?

Dru, Direct as always, and pretty much spot on...

Alpinfox, Yeah, it will. It's a trade-off between the rope getting away from you from the weight or tying off pro every now and then. I frankly don't tie off very often as I mind the rope pretty close. I also feel pretty confident in the pro I place and typically am not concerned about the first piece blowing for that reason as the next will do its job. When I am concerned about it I throw in two pieces in the same place or in close proximity and only clove hitch the top one. I've taken falls in this situation/configuration and it hasn't been a problem, though one should never say never - but again, like so much of trad leading, it's all about constant monitoring and occasional compromises (such as deciding whether to place pro at a lousy spot or climbing on hoping for better...).

BlakeJ, I was responding to the aspect of your question relative to "short sections". As others have stated you can sling yourself with protection through individual moves, but my comments were relative to getting all geared up for a regular roped solo versus just free soloing. I've been rope soloing regularly for 30 years or so (did several pitches of it yesterday out at Beacon) and had always used a method called the Yosemite Roped Solo technique (YRS) which I won't go into since this summer my friend Bud "Arturo" Smith convinced me to just use a small pack for the rope and a grigri. He's right, it is somewhat simpler and works fine. 1) Stack the rope in a small backpack 2) Tie a figure 8 in the end coming out of the backpack and a knot in the other end. 3) Clip the figure 8 to a screamer on an solid upward pull anchor (with lockers on both sides of the screamer) 4) put the rope on the grigri and the grigri on your harnesses belay ring so both rope ends face downward. (IMPORTANT: make sure the rope from the anchor is on the "climber" picture side of the grigri) 5) Climb normally reaching up and throwing more rope out of the pack as you go and be aware that at a certain distance the weight of the hanging rope can cause rope to start running through the grigri on its own pooling down around the anchor - clove hitch to a piece of pro about every 30-40' feet to stop this. 6) When you get to the end of your pitch (or the rope) tie a figure 8 into the rope and set it up on the anchor, leave the pack, rap the rope, teardown the first anchor and remove the figure 8, clean the pitch, restack the rope in the pack. 7) Repeat. Be aware there is a plethora of thought and debate around the use of grigris (regular and modified) for roped soloing; ditto for using clove hitches or other knots for backup while using this technique. I'm sure if you punch "roped solo" and "gri gri" into google or on this site you'd get plenty of info. I've done about 20 or 30 multi-pitch roped solos since the start of summer this way (with an unmodified grigri and no backup knot), taken falls, and with careful management it's all quite fine. But back to the original question, I probably would just free solo through short sections of approach / descent versus gearing up for the full roped solo deal - but, again, free soloing is dead serious business and I don't encourage anyone to do. It is an individual decision and I make no judgment of those that indulge or abstain.