Bill brings up a great point. Aid ratings are so subjective... I did some stuff in the Valley rated C3+ and found it to be way way mellower than some of the clean aid I've done at Smith rated around C3. Like the original first pitch of the PLW I had heard went clean at C3 or some bull shit like that... There I was 60 feet off the deck with nothing but a bunch of crap micro nuts so I nailed a beak and a LA. Shame shame I know... but if there really is such a thing as C3 I think it deserves an A2 rating along with it. I never once have felt the need to nail on the east face, nor had anything to nail. So mabey its just head games but to me real deal A3/C3 gets me scared to the point where I love welding pins, anything I feel I wasn't scared on is A2/C2 or below... Thanks for letting me rant about aid climbing