selkirk

That's not saying a whole much. I've kind of wonder if couplehood (slightly different from monogamy) isn't a result more of human well, for lack of better terms, laziness and jealousy. Does it represent a lowest energy state with regard to long term stability and raising a family. For trying to raise a family I think everyone agrees it's much better to share the burden of hunting/gathering/rearing and it's a whole lot for just one adult, but it seems like there would be a cost benefit for adding more committed adults to the mix, where you start to have to fight increased emotional demands and innate jealousy/selfishness. If it's brothers/sisters/mothers/fathers only that's one thing as the jealousy thing may be tempered, but with more well what amount to husbands/wives/parts of the "couple" it starts to seem like a delicate line to tread. Not that it doesn't or can't work, it just requires more effort to maintain. As for the marriage / infidelity thing, I came across an interesting article that indicated that the importance we place on fidelity in the US and the hurt/divorce that we experience when it occurs are tied to the expectations that we bring into marriage. That for some reason people in US tend to hang onto the romantic myth of the "perfect spouse" who is capable of meeting every last one of our needs and who will never screw up. Also indicated that infidelity doesn't really happen more or less in Europe, and isn't approved of or good, but also isn't perceived as a death blow to the relationship. So maybe monogamy is a good option, but it should be tempered with the knowledge that people are naturally flawed, and prone to making selfish mistakes.

You can do it Muff Besides, think of the good precedent your setting for the things!! Your eating habits will end being theirs too! And Lizard! Shame on you, coffee is not a vice! It's been shown to delay the onset of Parkinsons. Now go drink your medicine

Volant Karve Ski's, Marker 38 bindings. (alpine) No base damange, some rust on edges, but no damage. Really just need a good tune. 160's I think? (measure 161.29cm tip to base) $75/obo Can send pictures of bases if you like.

Older MSR Waterworks filter, works ok but sometime has back-pressure issues that take a little fiddling. $20/obo or free to starving students Size 10 Teva guide sandals. Sticky Spyder Rubber soles Lightl used. $20/obo

Brand new Nicros Warrior board, with all the mounting hardware. Got it last christmas, and doesn't fit in the house where I'd like to mount it. ($68 on mgear.) $60 obo (will ship for free.)

old REI pack, big ole' haul bag. A few repairs, a bit snaffle chewed on, but lots of life left. (probably 4,500+ Cubic Inches) Free to a new climber/backpacker in need of a pack (willing to donate if anybody knows any group that could use it.) Eagle Creek Guide Daypack. A few years old and seen some mileage, cotton canvas. Probably 1,500 to 2,000 Cubic Inches. Free to any beginner / starving student who needs a daypack. (willing to donate if anybody knows any group that could use it.) Boreal Aces, in need of a resole on one toe, Size 10 US. Free to good home, or willing to donate. Inflatable Sit Pad (thermarest). Free to good homes

Woohoo, spent all day Saturday at Vantage What a fantastic weather day. I'm week, and only did 4 climbs, but was a great day! Oh, and Wonder Dog came and was very well behaved

Grivel Tech Wing, used dry tooling a few times. Some scratches on shaft but overall in good shape. Mixte pick (beefy T rated), tuned a bit for dry tooling. $125 OBO

I'll strap on the opposite and we'll go as a healthy role model couple. Bring your other wife too. for Halloween i am going to be little dead riding hood Does that mean we can expect a full TR of your trip to grandma's house next week?

hell if it's Thriller, just go as a zombie.

I don't do weight and balance, but the guy next to be does

mmm, rope gank... It's probably aluminum oxide.

Instead of keeping a square top to the pick you file it so it has a bit of angle or taper to it. I think the DMM picks come with the taper on the top edge.

Or it could just be representative of that fact that every other person in this area is enginerd/programer/techy type.... Like me I do loads

Yep, I'll vouch for that. Had lots of commitment issues to work through over here But what does stable have to do with Gender? I could buy that, but it would be interesting to know the breakdown of families followed in this research? Where they all hetero, or some derivative (single hetero parent), and was there enough representation of same/sex couples? With similar breakdowns (stable couple, vs. single broken couple etc.) Is it tied to gender, or is it tied to strength of character/sense of independance? Of course there are three kinds of lies......

Never!!! Never admit defeat! All arguments must be to the death! sorry, sorry.... i'm Italian and Irish, I can't help it.

yes, it does. nice PC try though. kids need both a male and female role-model, so with same-sex parents, that missing role model needs to be filled somehow - ideally speaking that is. male and female, or masculine and feminine? And why? Is it simply so that they have a frame of reference when interacting with the rest of us? Conceptions of what a good Masculine roll model, and a good feminine roll model are vary so much from culture to culture, I wonder how much value they really have, except within that rather narrow group. When people lived and died within a few miles of where they were born, following the local social and familial norms may have been more necessary, but any more (especially in the US) we have the ability to create our own families and subcultures around us and can tune the people we associate with to our desires/beliefs. So I don't think that the traditional male/female has as much value as it used to. I agree with the notion that same-sex couples can raise healthy, well-adjusted kids - but I also think that kids naturally seek persons of their own sex to model themselves after, and counsel from people who faced similar situations/obstacles/dilemmas, and if that's not present to a certain extent in the home, they'll seek it out elsewhere. It'd be especially interesting to see what the statistics have to say about the outcomes in those cases of girls reared in male-male households, and boys reared in female-female households. My limited, biased, subjective, and wholly unscientific opinion is that boys raised in female-female homes will be both overprotected and overindulged in a way that's not going to prepare them terribly well for any of the more male-dominated environments that they happen to encounter in their lives. Have you ever seen fathers dote on their daughters? jeebus..... You wanna see coddling? Not all moms are the controlling doting type either, and everyone I've ever met that was was hetero... I would expect that after going through the challenges of being in a non-standard relationship, any successful (i.e. long term) female/female or male/male couple would recognize the importance of being independant and self aware, which seems like it wouldn't go well with coddling and domineering.

that's funny, the thing I've noticed is how people who are majorly fucked up can trace it right back to something that happened to them in childhood. Not particularly an either/or premise. Hell just about everything can be traced back to childhood, both good, bad, or indifferent. an interesting tid bit came out earlier this year talking to my dad about school reform and some of the research he evaluated during his EDD.... He was saying that the best predictor of what will happen to a child (will they fundamentally be ok, or fundamentally screwed up) was the opinion of they're 5th grade teacher, with a correlation of 90% or better Kind of a scary when you think about it .....

looks like another manufactured argument here for the sake of argument. do you have kids? have you been around enough to see how their role models affect them? have you read any of the research that comes out periodically on this subject? just because you don't like a "non-PC" truth, do you feel compelled to argue against it with no backing but emotion? Don't have kids (yet), and of course I'm playing devils advocate What else is the purpose of spray? And anyone who paid attention while growing up and going through high school, or actually watches their own nieces and nephews grow, has seen what affect role models have. I've watched lots of family grow up (and am related to) princesses and tom-boys, proto/agro males and nancy boys, gays, lesbians, and straight folkes, and have known every one of their parents, aunts, uncles, granparents, and great grandparens, and for the most part can trace their behaviours and tendencies back through three or four generations. but no, I'm not up on the current research and probably won't take the time to be anytime soon. I'm extrapolating a bit based on the people I know and am related to, and whom I think would be better parents.... Care to enlighten us with research based "facts"? I hate calling that stuff truth.... Facts imply incontrovertible evidence, truth necessitates a value judgment and point of view, both of which are far from incontrovertible.

Capacity to love? or Capacity to not be ruled by the nasty side? I think the Capacity is there, but I think very few people are anywhere close to capacity. Just like anything else the closer you get to capacity, the more challenging it becomes, and I do think people are fundamentally lazy.

yes, it does. nice PC try though. kids need both a male and female role-model, so with same-sex parents, that missing role model needs to be filled somehow - ideally speaking that is. male and female, or masculine and feminine? And why? Is it simply so that they have a frame of reference when interacting with the rest of us? Conceptions of what a good Masculine roll model, and a good feminine roll model are vary so much from culture to culture, I wonder how much value they really have, except within that rather narrow group. When people lived and died within a few miles of where they were born, following the local social and familial norms may have been more necessary, but any more (especially in the US) we have the ability to create our own families and subcultures around us and can tune the people we associate with to our desires/beliefs. So I don't think that the traditional male/female has as much value as it used to.

I always think about the Multi as more important anytime the rope is changing directions significantly. I actually rarely place one cragging as my belayer is usually directly underneath me, so the rope line remains straight. not to mention that in a lot of cases, one well placed passive piece can be plenty multi-directional so long as it's seated both above and behind a good constriction. Cams may be naturally "multi" but anytime a cam might rotate I start get squirmy, i've seen lobes invert during rotation too often. But then I'm a passive gear junkie....

The ideal is parents who love they're kids, ideally love each other (or at least can be cordial), and keep the kids challenged and growing. Does it matter if it's 2 guys, 2 girls, or some other mixture? I have a feeling Archie's neighbours daughter is probably better adjusted than a lot of kids from "traditional" families where the "parents" aren't happy. Also, I think that people's capacity to love is nearly infinite. However that must be balanced by our capacities for jealousy, selfishness, vindictiveness, pettiness, and general nastiness which also nearly infinite.

Place 2 pieces, use long skinny ass (6mm or 8mm) sling, to clip one, and then clove hitch the sling to the second piece and tension the system a bit.

Bump. Can't make it tonight but for anyone interested it's a good time! You might even like it Archie, you seem to have a proclivity for harnesses and sharp things.