ashw_justin

Better buy us some of that [euphoric self-congratulation]Universal Health Care[/] before it's too late for them

Having forseen that traffic jams are iminent in a city that grows, we're proactively solving the traffic problems of the future by driving as slow as possible and riding our bikes in the middle of the street, to deter and frustrate outsiders. It's also better for the environment. Win-win!

Haha, skiing that route late season has got to be much dicier than hiking, unless you are 'good.' I just assumed this was a troll. Who asks permission on the internet to solo? You won't find the answers you are looking for here... they are up on the mountain. But uh, we didn't tell you to go there or anything (except for that one guy).

Back to work hippie!

Well, if it were like sport climbing, there would poles cemented into the ground every 50 feet, so that you never had to worry about finding a winch point. But it's a false comparison since there is enough consensus to ban motorized travel in many places. Sport climbing hasn't gotten ugly enough to be banned. It's really just up to 'us' until then. Real democracy's a bitch. Keep up the good work.

...or Canada. Also if we cut down all of the trees there won't be any more of those dangerous forest fires.

The saddest thing about that thread... 30+ pages, and none of them even hinted at demanding a fair exchange of manmeat for their trouble. Not a one. How does that make you feel mr. hardman crymber, hmm?

If Bush fails to come out of it, triggering another Cheney heart attack, and Pelosi and Byrd are still sleeping off their all-nighters, then it's Condoleezza, our first woman president, who chairs the attack Iran. Or we could just elect Billary, same diff.

But you ALWAYS seem to be about to figure out who the sucker is, don't you? Are you actually going to say anything? Who's the sucker now, the one ranting on cc.com for fun, or the one armchairing a spray thread?

Good beef is too expensive anyway. I think I'm so cheap I've become beef intolerant. Or maybe it was just the E. coli, little rascals...

This gets at the false notion of symmetry in the transaction that is alluded to by the "buyers pay for paving" argument. If the buyer was "paying for the paving" then the buyer might expect true knowledge of and direct control over the actual production of their home. In the mass-production market, product is produced in advance from capital at the complete discretion of the seller, which renders the consumer completely passive. The dollars they "vote" with in the end actually have -zero- influence on their choices, because what they have to choose from is already built. The only affect on the market that their "vote" may have is for homebuyers in the future. Which could be themselves of course, if they're smart and decide to hold out--although that still won't give them any direct control over what they get to buy. Of course, it's not too hard to accept that choice comes at a price. As long as consumers are properly tempered by a brutally fair market, they ought to be able to figure it out for themselves. The ripples shouldn't be too hard on the rest of us... at least that is the hope, right?

Oh please, I'm flattered, really. Didn't I just get done saying that we live in a system that takes care of 'idiots' automatically? Why should I be worried then? You know that saying? Something like, when you can't figure out who the sucker is... it's you...

Yeah sorry TimL for being obnoxious. You're right, climbers are climbing harder routes in general. That is what this thread was about with the numbers missing. Do the numbers really lend any extra meaning?

No... still no. You see, this company did all of the development of this project before any of its consumers dropped a dime. Sure, it occurred in a market context that makes it look as if it is circular... but it isn't. Capital->development->payoff is the pattern, but there is absolutely nothing that says the pattern must be a closed loop. you've turned both the consumer and the developer into total mindless idiots. they are both rational... There isn't anything in the quoted statement that justifies your accusation. In fact I already said that the system can only make us wiser. Clearly the system will simply plow over any consumer or developer that falls into the category you suggest. The system is working... best not get so in love with it that you let down your guard, lest it eat you alive. Nature is vicious... and we are natural beings.

Such companies pay dearly for misguided risk by tanking spectacularly and dying in a poof of shredded documents. The fittest investors jump ship and elude bankruptcy at the expense of the rest.

No... still no. You see, this company did all of the development of this project before any of its consumers dropped a dime. Sure, it occurred in a market context that makes it look as if it is circular... but it isn't. Capital->development->payoff is the pattern, but there is absolutely nothing that says the pattern must be a closed loop. Yes! The capitalist crux! The consumer is strictly a money-spending unit. The means of production must never fall into their hands! Profits would vanish!

If by history you mean prediction, then sure, the company predicted that it could pave and sell, because people have been buying homes. But market history is only one factor that goes into sales predictions. Are you suggesting that all of the money this company spent on the current project arose from profits from previous development projects? Or are you guessing? What if I guessed that instead, they just borrowed the money at a low interest rate, or garnered the funds from investors? The selling of the paving pays for the company/investors to reap profits. And do more paving... if they want to. But again: the homebuyer does not pave.

No, the buyers do not in fact do any paving. They don't even pay for the paving. The building company paves, and then recoups its money by selling what it paved. True. However: Hmm... let's see. "You can afford a new home." That's a pretty irresponsible blanket statement to make. Sounds like quadrant homes makes money by manipulating said people. Of course, buyer beware is business as usual and that's not about to change. We ought to end up a lot smarter as a people, if we spend most of our time trying to deceive each other. edit: Notice also the prominent slot machine motif

MOVE TO SEATTLE EVERYTHING IS PERFECT HERE AND THE HOMES ARE CHEAP AND THERE ARE TONS OF JOBS AND THERE IS NO TRAFFIC AND YOU WILL BECOME MORE FIT AND SMARTER AND TERRORISTS DONT ATTACK HERE AND CALIFORNIA IS TOO EXPENSIVE AND CROWDED FOR YOU ACT NOW DIE AND GO TO HEAVEN FOR ONLY $400,000 BEFORE THE BOOM IS OVER AND WE STOP BUILDING ALL OF THESE HOUSES!!!!!

Care about what? I actually find the sociology of sport climbing pretty interesting. How much do numbers mean for most climbers? It seems like a lot, and a lot more than most are ready to admit. Do people want to climb say Chronic because they expect it to be an enjoyable climb, or because it will be their first 5.13? How much self-worth and motivation is wrapped up in the feeling of needing to measure up to "rising standards?" To be fair, most are probably getting on something like that because it represents the next step for them--they want a challenge. But that is a personal challenge, that has nothing to do with what "everyone else" is climbing these days. One person's 5.8 is another's 5.13... Of course, numbers matter A LOT... if you are trying to sell magazines.

To all you haters out there hating on our friend from Spain.....look again at his first post. I'm not hating, just going after the bait! He can take care of himself. Vale.

Fine, but how does the level at which other people are climbing have any bearing whatsoever on this? You know the grade at which you can have fun. Who cares what other people are climbing?

First thing: remove all of the numbers from your posts. Then ask yourselves what this thread is about (if anything). Next thing: try doing the same thing with your climbing in general.

They are making it sound like he wasn't actually climbing at the time, just got surprised by a wave.(?)