downfall

Hey people , it would be cool if you stopped attacking my subject line and maybe gave a listen to the audio and then attacked the contents of that audio. These points aren't mine, they are Derick Jensen's and I was interested in discussing them not try and have myself a lookup session with all his books trying to proxy between a bunch of random points based on the anti-civ subject line and what he wrote/spoke about.

Interesting point. So you think that the rate of wild habitat destrutcion and killing of wild animals/plants would increase from the rate it already is at if civilization were to end? Where did I say that? Where did Jensen say that? If civilization ended they only people who would have any benefit are those who already knew how to survive off the land in their current locale. I honestly don't know how to do this and I would assume that most hippies on communes don't relly know how to do that either. Its a skill that most of modern civilization has lost even if you say you are for or against that civilization.

What you really have to wonder is how someone who has a loved one who is affected by these diseases isn't able to question the causes of them, techological civilization. I don't have any data on this but it seems the more technocological/advanced/whatever we get the higher the rates of these diseases we have.

Part of the perspective Jensen is bringing to the table is that human population isn't the only population factor which is important or that it's the most important. The salmon populations, the forest populations, all the wild populations are just as important and humans ignoring this fact is what results in a culture which destorys these populations at the expense of all other natural populations. Whether civilization comes down now (with the beneift of keeping the natural populations we have left) or in the future because humans will ultimately destory the very eco-systems which we need (even in spite of technological advancements) to survive. Yes the human population would be drastically lower either way. So are you arguing that techniclogical solutions are the only answer to the fact that technicological soluions causes us to be in this situation in the first place?

CBS, it hasn't been two hours since I posted the link so you obviously haven't listened to it (since it's two hours long). Maybe you give it a listen before talking out your ass.

But if the civilization which supports your climbing lifestyle comes only at the expense of the lives lower in the violence hierarchy than yourself (jensen's idea) and at the expense of the future habitability of the planet would you still be so happy to stick with the status quo?

Very interesting talk by Derrick Jensen about why civilization needs to end. I'm putting this in spray because its not directly related to climbing but definitly related to enviro/access issues. If you're not familiar with his work then this is a good intro. Jensen has been extremely eye-opening for me. http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/04/1814543.php

Crossfit North in Magnuson Park and Crossfit Eastside in Redmond are the only affiliates in the seattle area. Neither of these fulfill all your requirements: Eastside has the time slot and is less than $20 but doesn't have showers and is not in your location. North is in your location but but doesn't have the time, cost, or showers. Maybe someone has something going out of their garage or at a club but I think your going to have a hard time finding a 6am on that.

I don't know. Horizontal drops outs do require the skewer to be set tight and flush againt them so the torque while pedaling doesn't shift the wheel I'd recommend trying to trade the frame with something equivalent on craigs list with 130 spacing since conversion frames for single speeds are hot and it would be better satisfying some messenger wannabe with that frame than fucking it up and you would have something which satisfies your need too

I meant that if you have horizontal drop outs which are parallel to each other to begin with but then bend the stays outward the dropouts are no longer parallel to each other and you'd have to rebend them where they meet the stay so that they are parallel again or else you might have problems getting your skewer to sit correctly. Sheldon goes in to the framealignment problem (i.e., each stay needs to be the same distance from the center) and that seems easy to adjust. Bending the dropout tabs where they go in to the stays seems harder. I know framebuilders do this but I don't know how hard it is to get right.

Just get a 120mm hub threaded for a singlespeed freewheel. These are readily available. You only have one speed but that's what all the kids are doing anyway. With the cold setting (I haven't done it but usually trust sheldon that what he says can be done can) it seems that you are liable to end up with the following unwanted results: 1) seat/chain stays bent at the bridges (maybe the distance isn't big enough to make this noticable though) 2) if you have horizontal drop outs, which you probably do giving the description of the frame, they won't be parallel anymore and you'd have to bend them too.

I agree with the don't buy it as I have no control if its in my house. I sub Macadamian nuts, Zone bars, and milk and sometimes a piece of candied ginger if I have it around. Another thing I've found is that brushing my teeth or drinking liquor helps (as long as your not drinking girly drinks).

The washout was passible easily in a car and lots of people were driving past it. I'm not saying that its allowed as there is a road closed sign but it definitly is drivable.

I'm sure Dru uses http://www.canuckster.com/ comlete with the canadian natinal anthem for your searching pleasure. Thanks for the ideas, this is the info I needed.

Google works in canada? I guess I was looking for info on National Forest type campgrounds or whatever the equivalent is in BC as well as recommendations from people who have stayed at these places in winter rather than just going off some random website search. Sorry if I was less than clear.

Heading up to whistler this weekend and am too cheep to put up for lodging. Are there any places close to the ski area where we can car camp this time of year?

The Robert Hicks Bates Award Robert Hicks Bates, a renowned explorer, alpinist, Peace Corp director and educator, has accomplished numerous first ascents in Alaska and was a member of the American expeditions to K2 in 1938 and 1953. His literary contributions describing the K2 expeditions and his life of adventure in the mountains have inspired young American climbers. He has served the American Alpine Club in many capacities: member of the editorial board of the American Alpine Journal, Board member, President and Honorary President. Above all, he has devoted his life to promoting the education and development of American youth through his years as a teacher at Phillips Exeter Academy, service with the Peace Corp, and other endeavors. To recognize his many contributions to American mountaineering and education of our nation's youth, the American Alpine Club has established the "Robert Hicks Bates Award" for outstanding accomplishment by a young climber. It is to recognize a young climber who in the judgment of the selection committee has demonstrated exceptional skill and character in the climbing or mountaineering arts and has outstanding promise for future accomplishment. Recipients of the Robert Hicks Bates Award: Josh Wharton 2003 Brian McMahon 2003 Jonathan Copp 2000 Lisa Rands 2000 Chris McNamara 1999 Tommy Caldwell 1998 Beth Rodden 1998 Stephanie Davis 1997 Jeff Hollenbaugh 1997 Kathleen M. Brown 1996 Chris Sharma 1996

I've looked at that a few times when I've been back there and though I haven't tried it I think there is 1 substantial cliff you might have to rap. Other than that it didn't look too bad.

It sounds like you want a formula crackers, if someone told you to "Do x, y, z on days a, b, c then you'll be a 5.11 climber." don't you think there would be 1 training program out there that everyone used and 5.11 climbers would be a dime a dozen? If you want to climb at that level I don't think its going to come down to whether you do you campus board workout on the same day you do crossfit. There is no magic formula. If you want it you will make it happen. It seems to me you don't want it bad enough and you're looking for an easy path where no easy path exists.

I'm no 5.11 climber so what the real path there utilizing crossfit is probably best getting from the likes of Rob Miller (PM me if you want and I might be able to get some contact info for him) who was mentioned in linked post from NYC007. That post says he does WOD as perscribed but I know he does lots of pullup work too (like kipping pullups to above the bar, dynamic pullups grabbing a higher bar, and stuff like that). So maybe I'm confused at what you are looking for but CF should provide you with the Power and GAET training. So I would drop those programs and focus on CF. WRT recruitment, some crossfitters will say its overrated/unnecessary, for example there are stories of crossfitters going in to triathalons with little to non sport specific training apart from the WODs and come out on the podium. Climbing 5.11 is different than triathalons though. And there is that Will Gadd article that floats around on here sometimes about training pullups didn't equate to him being a good climber but training recruitment/climbing movements did. One thing that the movements I mentioned above will give you over doing your typical climbing non-climbing recruitements exercises (like lat pull machine . . .) is that you body will be working in a functional way which is how the movement happens in climbing (not necessarily the same movement but your muscle systems will be coordinated and working together not isolated and trained independently). Getting real strong on power cleans probably won't make you a 5.11 climber when you hit the rock but you probably will have a better foundation for building those climbing skill than if you spent the winter doing lat pulls.

Also, crossfit is designed not to train specificity. I think you'll find that the broad range of movements available in crossfit might carry over in to your climbing in ways you might not anticipate.

One of the things I do it try to make my climbing workouts crossfit-like. One of my favorite things to do is to see how fast I can climb all the V0/1s in the gym. Or if you don't care about looking goofy in the gym to can drop and do sets of 20 pushups between routes. If you have access to the equipment you can also do crossfit workouts which integrate rope, cargo net, or inverted ladder climbs; some of these workouts get posted as WODs on the website. Other than that you can focus on pulling movements. Like power cleans, rowing, snatches. We also see that lots of climbers come in to crossfit with extremely stiff shoulders. So working stuff that emphasizes shoulder flexibility such as pass throughs, hand stands, dips, overhead squats also seem to help with these issues and should complement the climbing training.

Lots of crossfitters also follow the Zone diet. If you get lost with %carb talk you'll probably get lost in the Zone too as it requires lots of measurements of your food intake which is regulated according to your lean body mass. Though once you get in the habit for a few weeks its really all not that hard and the little extra effort pays off big time. Basically its going to come down to how much you really care about improving. Crossfit and the Zone aren't for free; what you put in to them determines what you get out. There is a crossfit message board for nutrition here: http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/23/23.html Last summer was the first summer I climbed while following the zone and it made a huge difference. Was a little tricky getting away from the typical carb/sodium loading of climbing eats but once I did eating was no problem. Also endurance atheletes, and I think Twight's paper may go in to this (at least if its the same paper I read from a cf seminar a year or so ago), typically take multiples of the regular zone allocation for fat providing its good/beneficial fats.

cfire has it right. You don't need lots of equipment and lots of subs are listd on the crossfit site. Barbells and dumbells are probably essential, most everything else can be subed. Subs are listed on the website (in the FAQ and most of the time people will ask for appropriate sub in the days workout comments on the main site). There are several gyms around as well as cf portland if you want to do the workouts as prescribed (some workouts use special equipment which most people or gyms don't have like ropes, glute/ham machines, dballs, medicine balls, rowers) and want the personal coaching from crossfit trainers. I definitly recommended visiting a CF gym if you are getting started as technique on lots of the movements can be easy to botch and cause injury if you aren't doing it right. Also the coaches there will be able to help get you ramped up without killing yourself in the process. Some gyms can be a bit pricy but once you find a coach who you work well with the return on investment is excellet. Besides crossfit portland of interest to the NW are www.crossfiteastside.com (Redmond) www.crossfitnorth.com (Sand Point) www.crossfit.ca (Vancouver) http://www.crossfitpc.blogspot.com/ (Pierce County) http://www.rainiercrossfit.com/ (Puyallup) Crossfit Mount Vernon/Skagit county (no website yet) I know lots of the coaches at these gyms so if you want some more info let me know via PM. I workout at crossfit eastside and we've got a few other climbers there as well.

What kind of standard for tail maintence do you want? Like the sidewalk outside your house? Not to derail the actual topic which needs discussion. Its kind of hard to find out exactly where to comment on this (I already called the guy in charge and gave him some suggestions on clarifying the location to input comments). Here is the link so you can go drop them a line (do it now, don't hesitate) and let them know you don't think the management policy needs to be updated or whatever else you think. http://parkplanning.nps.gov/commentForm.cfm?projectID=13746&documentId=12825