markd

Mark….I don’t think soloing is an accepted part of climbing solely because climbers have been doing it since the beginning of climbing. Drivers cut me off everyday on the freeway and they have been doing it since the beginning of cars…..its definitely not accepted that they cut me off. Climbers just solo whether anyone likes it or not. I would take it ever further and state that more climbers frown upon it than praise it. I personally hate it when someone is soloing next to me or even in eyesight. It would ruin my day if I watched someone get messed up or even dye while I’m watching. All when it could have been prevented. maybe it's more fair to say, some people have thought of soloing as acceptable for a while now and some haven't. i'm not here to say what's right and wrong as far as soloing - i don't think they'll ever be consensus. IMHO, soloing is one of many disciplines in climbing that is a worthwhile pursuit. it's part of being a well rounded climber. i know i've seen you solo...

Mark: he wasn’t on the 11+ when I swung over to say hi. I'll ask Jaime what the climbs were. The swing occurred ~3/4 high on Critical Mass, he was right and lower of me... warming up, but not snoop style I understand the history of soloist with some level of respect but it scares me to see how it is becoming more and more accepted and glorified in the magazines. Just my opinion. I don’t want to be around it and find it disturbing that this climber traveled so closely to us. To his credit, I am amazed by his physical and mental strength. Looked to be 5.13+ climber. These guys keep pushing the limits til one day..... Kaboom. i agree about the glorifying of it in the mags... - though i don't think this is a new trend. when you look at old mags, you can find plenty of pics of hersey, croft, barber and bachar amongst others soloing the high end grades of the time. i think the problem now-a-days is that climbing is a mainstream sport that *maybe* should have stayed a fringe sport. i think a trip down to visit me IS in order.

probably ivan on one of his solo laps! ( just kidding ivan ) 10 years ago it would have been andrew and ken because they were CRAZY!

i think you're right pink. some days are slower than others at work. when you heading back this way? mid july maybe september hope to see you this time around mid july, huh. i can't imagine why you'd want to come here then if you get some time off before that and want to make a nw loop - you should think about visiting me. i've got some adventure we could get ourselves into.

pink chalk, having seen you climb, i'm fairly certain you didn't fall on the lower section of critical mass. which makes we wonder what the hell he could have been on??? as far as your question: i'm not sure there is a right answer. one thing is for sure though: people have been soloing since the beginning of climbing so it's an accepted part of the sport. having said that - i'm not sure why someone would want to solo in a crowd, if there were other options. coming down to sunny!!! central oregon anytime soon?

i think you're right pink. some days are slower than others at work. when you heading back this way?

Never happen. I have been trying for 10 years. kevin, i still have your harness ( light blue ) that you were just as stubborn to retire a few years ago! i plan on saving it for a while and then bringing it out for a laugh down the road. How do you have my old harness? Did I leave it at your house or something? I would like to get it sometime from you! not sure how i ended up with it. i've had it for a few years. ( and a few moves ) i've only saved it because i knew it would be funny down the road. remember when i wouldn't let you belay me with it?

sorry no more hand cracks. opal? never heard of it

you're a punk snoop! you were supposed to be climbing down here last weekend. we did four ground up first ascents... next time you should come?

Never happen. I have been trying for 10 years. kevin, i still have your harness ( light blue ) that you were just as stubborn to retire a few years ago! i plan on saving it for a while and then bringing it out for a laugh down the road.

here's a link kevin: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=241411&msg=244293

it was listed as an aid climb in the the 92 watts guidebook because no one had freed it yet.

kevin, tommy and beth did not bolt this climb - beth did the first free ascent. alan watts and brook sandhal (sp?) bolted it in the 80's.

thanks for sharing. the pics and video were nice to see. looked like a worthwhile adventure.

thanks pink. big ledge is one of my favorite places to hang and climb from. view to the west: view to the east. i'd really like to climb flying swallow.

arent leading one of the classics above joseph's new route.

the route climbs the next weakness over (to the east) from locals access only. i believe it shares the same start (joseph?) with reasonable richard and local access only, then breaks off right to get into it. i'm not sure what that qualifies it as, however, it appears to be as independent as the previously mentioned routes. joseph: does this route have the potential to be better than the other options? if yes, would it be worth cleaning up more?

it's just to the right of local access only. it climbs to the reasonable richard anchor.

bachelor is looking good again today too. except for the 1 degree temp! however it's bluebird with good snow. glad you got some turns bill - tis the season.

conditions at bachelor today were really good. it was very cold with fluffy snow.

mark, i do beleive that you diverted the topic yourself and i don't think kevin is fishing for info for his own guide. if kevin is going to put out a guide and you disagree with it, maybe it would have better to p.m. him. what was your angle with your post to kevin anyway? mr. pink the topic of this thread is guidebooks. all i talked about in my original post was guidebooks. my only off topic post was to you after you made some unprovoked comments to me. kevin knows what i think about the guide. that's why i proposed some specific questions for him, so the forum could join in. he would have done the same to me if i was creating this guide. what do you think about guidebooks for unpublished areas that have the potential to get shut down? what if you were one of the original developers? you sure had a lot to say about beacon when that was on the chopping block, as i did as well. i'm very passionate about places i develop and this place happens to be one of them. have a good day - i'm off to the mountain for first chair and some fresh pow.

peter, where did i put kevin down? ( we're friends ) i have a vested interest as i've put up routes there. this crag has the potential access issues as well. i just want to be sure a guide is the right thing to do, which by the way is the title of this thread, not "lists".

thanks for your honest answer, however i don't understand why you would need to have star ratings on routes you already climbed, if this "list" is for you.

andrew, your inability to have an educated conversation is astonishing! i'm not playing your game. do you have anything on topic to say?

kevin, some things to think about: - why do you feel the need to write a guidebook? - what do the other developers think of said guidebook? - how will you go about giving star ratings? based off consensus? - who is your target market? - do you feel like the most qualified person to do this?