minx

no only blueeyshadow

quit giving orders! we need answers

ask me no questions and i'll tell you no lies

i was done with this thread after the above post. you people have ruined now. you're all chindicks!

X=8 8=D

done!

shockingly, layton has just provided the most useful part of the discussion. to those using the argument that strumpett shouldn't listen to a climbing board for climbing advice b/c no one here is an expert. i don't think anyone here is claiming to be an expert just expressing educated opinions and trying to point her to some information. in the past few years, there has been a lot of people trying to link vaccines to several problems including autism. most of this arrives from antectodal evidence and has little basis in actual fact. in fact scientific studies refute many of the claims put forth. these seem to be arguments that are originated by people looking to explain a problem that their child. they get support from others looking for answers. unfortunately antectodal evidence is not the same as empirical findings. there has been occasional issues with various formulations of some vaccines as they enter the market. h/e the common childhood vaccines have decades of history behind them. (v7 i'd like to know your definition of long term). While a small number of children may have an adverse reaction to a vaccine, the vast majority will never experience a problem. The risk of permanent damage is extraordinarily small. there is no evidence grounded in good science to support claims that link any of the common vaccines to chronic illness. the burden to demonstrate safety of vaccine administered to children is extra-ordinary. i chose to wait on giving my child the chickenpox vaccine until it had been on the market for several years. just taking the cautious route but had him vaccinated for the standard pannel of childhood diseases. strumpett's child best not leave the US if not vaccinated. so many parts of the world have such poor vaccination campaigns that the risk of getting anything from polio to measles if fairly high. after seeing some polio victims in India, i don't know how in good conscious you wouldn't vaccinate. heartbreaking.

PP- essentially you're right but there is a flaw in that argument. What if she decided to cross the street at the wrong time, or drive to work in the rain, or continue and exercise class? Any of these simple seemingly low risk decisions could have bad outcomes. Anytime there is a bad outcome to a pregnacy, there is going to be regret. again, you and i seem to agree....mostly.

listen here, ye of no phoenetic pronunciation- (yes, you and the symbol formerly know as prince)- if you think that's a bitch fight, then you better start taking things even less seriously until you are told otherwise by the women of this board. sheesh--some purple symbol loving fairy is spoutin off about the board bitches.

i knew archenemy and olyclimber were the same terroist...umm person!

Rudy when you pay for my trip to the mediterranean, i'll be happy to write a TR and post some pics. h/e until then--nice pics tony! thanks for posting. the rest of you, i need more!

cheers to ya! snoboy

v7- not every discussion has to be or should be wrapped in souful trappings. what wrong with a reasoned discussion? why must everything be drama and emotion?

i watched a few minutes of Dr. Phil on Okrah once. Does that count?

oh and btw V7 STFU-- PP and i were having a reasonable exchange. WTH is your problem?

PP-- i've had no training in risk management so my analytical process is obviously different than yours. You're right though. It's all a matter of how we do the analysis.

strumpett-- i am not going to open the "why" or "why not" vaccinate can of worms. as a parent and someone working in research related to vaccines, I can not endorse your failure to vaccinate.

If the sperm donor would have worn a helmet, this conversation would not be taking place. that's lame. why do you assume this was an unplanned pregnancy?

PP- limited fashion meant that i limited myself to doing what felt comfortable. it's a personal choice. i think that it would and should be left to the woman to understand how she is feeling physically and what her limitations are. i would assume that this gal felt safe and comfortable. accidents happen, even to pregnant women who aren't participating in sports. Sure it's possible she could've fallen but apparently this was familiar oft climbed route for her. i'm not sure that the risk level of that is much different or higher than taking a fall off a bicycle or horse.

arch, come on--what about the meth exception under subsection 646 part xiii?

Hey PP-thanks for answering the question. I think that if you and your wife made a mutual decision to limit the activities that's great. I just don't agree with that approach. After discussing it repeatedly with my doctor, I maintained a very active lifestyle for the first 7 months. I toned it down for the last bit for a variety of reasons. Mainly b/c I was tired. My doctor assured me that any fall was going to hurt me more than the baby during that time. He had more cushioning than I did. My physician was comfortable with me riding my horse in limited fashion, hiking, jogging. I took care of 12 horses every day including moving bales of hay and cleaning stalls. He assured me that the impact from falling off my horse was unlikely to cause problems. He felt that sitting on my ass would be worse for both of us. One of the most painful injuries I've ever had was a broken elbow. I got that walking across a floor. I don't think there's in any point in living too delicately. Women have been having babies for a long time. It's not an illness or injury. I did have some minor non-pregnancy medical issues during my pregnancy. They were relatively minor but I did have to think for two at that point. Challenging to be sure. I had a very easy time being pregnant. I am convinced that being active and going on about my life as usual really helped.

sheeit! i can tell there's a buncha men posting to this thread. have you ever tried to reach the stove while you're preggers? during that last month or so it can be a challenge. men should be serving the women dinner, especially then.

just out of curiosity, to PP and those who think climbing while preggers is inappropriate. where is the line that a woman should draw while pregnant relative to physical activity, particularly hobbies? skiing? jogging? climbing? cycling? lifting things at work? walking the dog? swimming? yoga? knitting? surfing? carrying the groceries?

I would guess that, since his initial post incorrectly characterized the mostly supportive responses on their forum as dissapproving, he's not thrilled. I believe you are incorrect. I did not “characterize” the thread but rather made a general statement regarding the feedback she has been getting. The thread was created as a response to offline negative feedback. The thread itself contains both negative and supportive feedback. Sharpen up! but PP, we still don't know what you think?

PP-- the real question is what is your opinion?