billcoe

- Much better! So it is true ! Whooo hoooo! I was holding my breath ! You .....Hmmm, wait a sec. - maybe you about to ask for a favor or sumpin? - Schweet, but how can you hook a salt shaker to the heel spur to get and keep the slugs off?

_________________________________________________________ Like most of your ideas this one sounds awesome. Rogue sounds good too. And if your name is Bill first is on me! At first I thought this might another awesome idea - and it might be directed towards me. However once I stopped drooling thinking of the free beer and all, I re-read the name. Who's Bill First? Did you guys get extra rain last night to help contribute to the simulation of full-on Scottish conditions?

How did it go? (shooting for a Dru-like thread revival)

Except for my last post, this is really an amazing thread. Just reading it slowly this time shows there to be some real powerful words, emotions and thoughts. Thank you all for opening up and sharing some fragile depth. I'm sure I speak for all of us, including those of us who never had the good fortune to meet him, sorry to hear of your brother's fall Lowell.

Evil and awesome: how about some rubble at the base for the full on troll?

That's F*en A awesome all the way around Gavin. Thank you for sharing that with us, as 1 of many gear whores on this site I can assue you that we appreciate it. FYI - I put a copy here as well: Rockclimbing.com Used Gear/Great Deals BTW, I stopped going to the Mountain Shop and refused to buy anything from them when they stopped allowing Bergfreunde to have the ski swap in the basement. That's anything . The US Outdoor store has been more than happy to get it all, (that Gavin did a couple of favors for a friend) including buying my skiis (3 new pairs last 2 years) both kids snowboards (boy got a Burton custom this year, daughter moved to hawaii for college and gets nothing as her pleas for Pops to get her a surfboard have been ignored). Deeke and Bryan get some of it as well, they have cheap but awesome gloves, helmets and stuff. They might re-consider that policy.

no.

Rats: I'm done with the sweatpants now for sure.

When the dog takes a healthy dump on the handwoven Tibetian carpet. Having the flu, and you can't stop puking. Psycopaths. People who both hide their identity, then tell you to STFU when you say something they don't like.

I think Rock and Ice just did a review of those kind of products. The Trango Ballnutz were rated higher than the Rock and Rollers.

I have used the stanley, the Nissan, and an authentic Thermos: they all worked awesome. Preheating is the key for longevity. That being said, Messner wrote that he much prefered a Thermos to a stove 90 percent of the time. Little research might drag up the brand he used. I would think, given the longevity of those things, that spending the money and getting the very best would be the thing to do. I have a consumer reports online subscription, they don't list Thermos. Vacuum bottles either. They do speak highly of the Eureka for real vacuums however. Let us know what you decide?

Actually, there is not much out of control bolting at either place, and it seems to still be a big issue for some at the butte. I wasn't refering to you on the lazyness thing but to myself. I don't think there is an arguement against that. Probably also true.

I find myself often agreeing with Joseph. But- The only thing I've ever run into at Steins was Antelope and Deer. Closest I've ever been to antelope in my life. I think there still can't be many routes there now, and if you did grid bolt the place you still would not have many and people would rarely go there anyway. As far as the bolting issue goes, it remains a difficult thing to reconcile. Perhaps climbing Angel Flight Buttress or something like that might help cure Joseph of the idea of dangerous runouts. I know Jim is developing some stuff at Area 51 which involves bolts: personally, having seen 3 peope die, right in front of me near my fingertips, has swayed me a bit over to safety. I am cleaning a route now, top down, common form in that area of loose blocks, moss and choss. I have shoveled about 1000 lbs of loose rock and dirt off so far and have the bulk of the loose stuff trundled, but it has a 3-4' inverted pyramid triangle shaped basalt block which is semi-loose. It would otherwise be a great hold. I know I could safetly lead climb it knowing that I can wrap my entire hand around the right side and pull straight down with all my body weight. I also know that a 20 lb straight out pull will yank it off, as will grabbing the left side of the pillar. I would not want the responsibility of the next person pulling that and killing their belayer and perhaps themselves too. It is high enough up that I can't see the entire ground area . It is too heavy to direct to a spot which is visible. So I left it for now and will get a spotter with a walkie talkie to make sure the area is clear before I cut it loose. Sure, everthing doesn't have to be safe. However, do we not carry some resonsibility if another dies due to our choices and or lazyness? I have changed in that way over time. BTW, it doesn't matter if you are climbing 5.11 IMO, you still have a voice and a stake in it. Chouinard isn't climbing 5.11 or even close to it. I know for a fact that he can still pull the 5.8 on Nutcracker though. If Chouinard or Fred Beckey were to weigh in on this subject, would their voices not count now?

The climatologist from OSU is predicting warmer and wetter than normal. Unfortuneatly, that doesnt' really tell us how many skiing days we will be getting. The sure way I have found which I can personally help to ensure lack of snow is to buy the season pass.

You mean weekly! Damn, you guys rock! Here's hoping you hit good weather every week,

Apparently no one cares. I went home last night and thought this thread over. Know something. I started getting somewhat disturbed. That's a pretty rare thing for me. In fact, it kind of started to piss me off. In a way, it reminds me of that nursery rhyme with the little red hen somewhat. You know the one, One day as the Little Red Hen was scratching in a field, she found a grain of wheat. "This wheat should be planted," she said. "Who will plant this grain of wheat?" "Not I," said the Duck. "Not I," said the Cat. "Not I," said the Dog. "Then I will," said the Little Red Hen. And she did. (that process goes on for a while) Later………… When the wheat was threshed, the Little Red Hen said, "Who will take this wheat to the mill?" "Not I," said the Duck. "Not I," said the Cat. "Not I," said the Dog. "Then I will," said the Little Red Hen. And she did. She took the wheat to the mill and had it ground into flour. Then she said, "Who will make this flour into bread?" "Not I," said the Duck. "Not I," said the Cat. "Not I," said the Dog. "Then I will," said the Little Red Hen. And she did. She made and baked the bread. Then she said, "Who will eat this bread?" "Oh! I will," said the Duck. "And I will," said the Cat. "And I will," said the Dog. "No, No!" said the Little Red Hen. "I will do that." And she did. _________________________________________________________ Except in the climbing version, the dog the cat and the duck start yelling "WTF are you even "baking the bread" for you F*ing asswipe? Lets sit here and see if it will just get better. It’s one thing to be just vaguely ambivalent. There are lots of people who haven’t weighed in because they either want to be out of the loop or just are. I was thinking how many great folks/good climbrs/interesting people have been absent lately. Haven’t seen Steve Strauch or Neil Olsen for quite some time. I know Steve Lyford is getting back into it, as was Mark Cartier. But there doesn’t seem to be any support or help out there. Lot of apathy in general. I do damn little and that leaves Joseph pulling almost the entire load with an occasional assist from left field via that person or another. I was going to head out there with JH this Sunday, but now I don't want to go out there this weekend. I have a project I'm cleaning elsewhere that’s gonna be a classic sometime, and that’s where I'll be in case any of you ungrateful bitc*hes give a fuck. Joseph might feel putting in the time as an unpaid bureaucrat, WITH NO SUPPORT OR HELP AND DAMN LITTLE ENCOURAGEMENT justifies the end results he laid out (copy above): but as no one else seems to Give a F*,: Fu*Kit, I'm done.

Hi Mark (thats right you did! Again, nice job BTW) Stewart! 20 footer onto a bashie! you rock, I'm happy you'd be honored to get a belay from me on it, I give great belay too! Sigh I do.............yes. But we are getting into a relm where typing the story will be both too short and abrupt. A get together would be the way to talk that over. But even a get togther with 4-5 people turns into something which resembles a car shooting off downhill which has no driver and no brakes, and minimal direction either for that matter. Ask Kevin how that works - I think he was in the Lucky Lab with Jimmy O, JH, McGowen , myself and the lovely and witty Kellie R from the access fund earlier this year - ask how that story plays out. At the core is- should we do nothing, or should we try and get access to the West and East Face, and the ability to clean a route without pissing off the park people. Yes, they did catch a fella putting a sweet 5.9 with 7 bolts just to the left of the "closed" sign on the north side. Yes it was a BIG issue for the park. In that instance, dude (Gordon) was out of bounds and a loose rock could have hit a tourist or parked car. They were cranked nd upset, deservely so. There is a climbing mangaement plan which was hammered out years ago. Jim O, Mike Jackson and Larry jennings all were into working with the park under the last ranger, with variying results. Ask Jim, long story. Some people would like to see those issues dealt with before hand and have a voice in talking to the park. It is a park, they are GENERALLY happy to have us and happy to have people use the park - that is the mission of the Wa state parks system, to be there for people to use them and enjoy them. The park folks work hard, they are proud of the job they do, and are as concerned about the park as anybody here. Relationships out there are good right now (you can thank Joseph for a lot of that), but probably should be worked on periodically (washed like an old blanket once in a while) to make it better. I don't want to be somebody who puts in hours of labor on non-paying crap like this (especialy given how unhappy it seems to have made many of you), but Joseph has. The real question is: how do we move forward ? Is the general consensis to just walk away and leave it alone? Let the rangers figure stuff out on their own and show up periodically and tell you what the new rule changes are without asking for your input? I'm afraid that they will if we stay disengaged. I have had feelings of fear from being so open with them, I have shared that with Joseph too, including this tree thing. But I suspect I was wrong on that. They are glad we are concerned enough to do something and they are very open with working with them. So now what? Just go climb eh?

Nother point. You cleaned it off? Cleaned it? I'll bet somebody is gonna show up and piss on you here in a moment for making it easier to get up it, and then showing up and telling people exactly that. Has anyone done this route? Anyone? Well, I wanted to head over to it this summer (would have except for the foot issue, so maybe next year), and so I want to personally thank you for spending the time and effort to get it ready for me! Thank you

Something else. OK, I was wrong about the rest of you wanting this, must have been speaking strictly for myself. I didn't want the tree to be blown off and see somebody put in bolts and rap anchors.

Another point. I love dogs. I was out just Tuesday evening (finally testing my foot) with a regular partner who has a great labrador that loves (and was last night) running wild and free. I alway turned my pups loose when I had them cause they were so easy going and social. Unfortunatly, some folks just hate dogs. (to a degree that sometimes they will poison them.) Thank you for speaking up for the people who don't like fido eating their lunch while they are up a pitch, or don't appreciate the joy it gives a pooch to mark your backpack or rope, and for and asking people to be considerate.

Another point. I don't know why Gandlolf himself wanted to do that, but it's a great thing in that it was there historically and will help some hapless beginner from decking at some point. Announcing that act on this forum undoubtedly prevented the first person who saw it from ripping it right back out of the rock as booty. Thank you for doing that.

Another point. This was a nagging little issue with the park folks that big shiny silver chains kept just showing up annonunced, furthermore, I heard Gandolph the Grey Himself bitch about it and had some others take down the chains which were thoughtfully placed at the top of his route adn returned to the helpful person who has spent their money and time to put them there: P2. Thank you for spending your own money and time to help repair the relationship and the anchors. (personally I don't give a f if they are there, I use them: others certainly do for various reasons.)

Some points noted from previous posts. I appreciate trying to get people ot use the F*ican space effeciently so that I don't have to pay. Thanks!

"Gear to 5 inches" makes it sound like the crack part isn't bolted, and the R rating must mean not many of those at that.

Wrong emoticon Bobby