billcoe

Thanks Kev ! But my wife has me after work. Next time for sure.

MR? !!! OMG! YOU'RE NOT A CHICK! OMG WHO ELSE SAW THAT COMING?

Hola Hemp, you might start a new thread on events with these 2 topics so it doesn't get quickly lost on this one.

Not correct. BTW Kev, notice that they move this to Spray, so diss away if you want.

______________________________________________ Happy to report that there appears to be no more interesting FAs to do in Oregon.

I told you fuckers to get Mauve Goddammit!

Ouch. I must have been on something else I don't remember any pins. Lets send Joseph up there with some crack-n-ups and see what happens.

I'm not real good at this kind of finguring out locations, I might have been up there with Joseph couple of weeks ago? Maybe? Maybe not though. He'd know.

Sorry, I'm lucky if I can rememember my kids birthdays. Yes, you should tick it off AND bring your pruning sheers and broom next time. Sorry I'm such a dumbass. Joe can't read for a while so I'm keeping an eye on his questions for a couple of days. Might ask Jimmy O, it's his route. He's in perpetual cleaning mode anyway, last Sat he followed me on a bunch of pitches and I could often tell where he was even if he was out of sight by the tufts of grass that would puff out from the cliff every few feet. Look for an elderly gentleman out at the rock who has cord-like muscles and thats most likely Jim. ...If the elderly gentleman has close cropped grey hair, that's Joseph, and if he looks like a prune that's me.

Hey, what's this drip?

You might have to do some trial and error work Ketch but I'll bet you would be able to figure it out pretty quick. You could put something in smaller than you think you will be normally using and drop test a weighted rope on a FF2 fall or as close as you can set it up. I suspect that just getting on it and drilling will give you a real good feel for how strong the rock is. Try drilling some different areas to see if there is variation. You might go drill some granite or basalt beforehand with that exact drill bit and setup to see how long it takes to sink the drillbit in the required depth and how that "feel" transfers to your new rock. The cementing agents of the Breccia or conglomerate could be 2 on the Mohs scale all the way to harder than the hubs of hell if its a compressed quartz. Who the hell really knows till you get on it and put the drill to it, but then you'll know. Those guys in England are climbing on the crumbly chalk-like white cliffs of Dover with ice tools. They've figured out how to do it without dieing and I suspect you will too. -Damned excited for you, my fingers are itching right now just thinking of the adventures you must be looking forward too.- Here's some links to help out: I think the second one, the dudes masters thesis, is some great stuff. Remember that you won't be using anything 8mm or smaller like was tested. Translating metric, 10mm would be close to 3/8" (tad larger). Sounds like your rock may be stronger than his too. I suspect that the blocks that cracked in the tests would be less likely to split if they were left as part of a larger cliff structure and not just detatched blocks in a lab hooked up to a machine. But it should give you a feel for a good comp. material. Safer climbing link Masters Theses re: bolting in Sandstone Enjoy and keep us posted will ya?

Bring a mop Sean. Might not need to bother heading home, it's good wet out there right now and still coming down lightly. Since I planned on 85 degrees and dry and dressed in cotton shorts and a polo shirt, I'm gonna most likely blow you guys off tonight. _________________________________________________ Troy said: If I remember your whole story Troy, she lived in the green house on the edge of the cliff which stares directly East to Birds of Paradise. She said, if I remember correctly, that the rock the climbers were climbing on is moving. Like it was going to fall off was my interpretation? I'm wondering if this is the kind of thing which almost killed me last trip to Hawaii entering the ocean to swim. Bottom line: looking at it one way and it appears insignifigant or is not visible at all, but from the other way looks hugely substantial and deadly. I checked out Birds from all sides, but not further down the cliff towards the houses or that Wisdom Tooth area. There could be something to her observation. Since none of us has checked it out from the other angle, I agree with Troy that the first person over there use all your senses, drive slowly and with caution, looking to get the chop. Especially if you head over there in the rain tonight! Nothing like a little adventure to finish out the day BTW, there is poison oak in that vicinity

Oh yeah, that might have been Moi. -Did it go something like this:- It might have been the humoungous boulder on the center of Bill's Buttress. Like route 3. I'd climbed past the boulder twice and it looked disconnected so only used it for a foothold. 2nd time, I saw a little rock in a crack which after I plucked the pebble out with my fingertips (pulled it out thinking what a great little finger crack sized placement this will be), watched in horror as the whole boulder, which turned out was balanced so perfectly on it's centered tipping point and gently resting on the little rock wedge in the crack, then rocked over and the fingercrack became no more. I rapped down a few days later, slightly pushed it out from above with my toe and watched the whole thing easily rock over and pitch off. It then smashed and swept that huge flake below which you and I spent part of a day cleaning off totally off the cliff. It shook the whole cliff so severely and was so loud that it, no shit, made me so weak in the legs and the mind that I gathered up my gear and went home. Unable to climb or even hang out there any more. I almost shit myself. So you were right after all, we did not have to spend so much time cleaning that flake. Do you remember me insisting it be cleaned to perfection and you rolling your eyes? I saw that, yes. It was used and looked like a nice place for pro however, which is now no more. Imagine falling and having that flake pull off right above you. You'd be dead I don't care what brand of helmet you had on, it would take you and your ass and wipe it off the planet. Anyhooo- I haven't been back to clean it or climb it since, but noticed doing the next route over, that there was a huge patch of untouched dirt where that flake formerly had been. Anybody wants to head up there and bolt the holy shit out of that entire area, have at it. Couple of those routes various seconds and other people were chiding me for not having any pro to speak of. Later, when I hurt myself, feeling weak, I did toss in a single bolt and single pin on rap for the very last route on the left hand side of the Buttress. Which, as it turned out, still feeling in pain like a wuss, I wound up following and Bryan Schmidt led it. It is the only currently named route, he calls it "Corona Glass Houses"- which will most likely now be shortened by everyone to "Glass Houses" once all the broken Corona Bottles the asswipe Russians are still tossing off are re-swept off the route. Don't want to speak for Bryan, but I don't think Bryan would care if anyone put in a bolt or 2 on that route either, but it probably is the best protected route there. Most of the loose rocks are off of the Buttress now. That's my loose rock story for this year anyway, that must have been like May or June, few months back. Chopped 2 ropes out there this year (not my new lead rope fortunatly), so now I have all new ropes. None as good looking as you and Troys however. So I might have some other loose rock stories, but that's the most current.

I re-read the question. I think I'd want to explore how strong the conglomerate type rock is very carefully before you get too far into the whole project. With todays modern drills, you might want and/or need to drill an anchor which goes 12" deep or deeper. You might be able to use standard cut 1/2 diameter x 12"-24" long type 316 cut ATR and Epoxy them in, and have the custom anchors be as good or better than anything made off the shelf, dependant on rock strength. The Titanium will last longest, but are not that deep. Rock strength should be looked at closely.

Like any standard glue in except they will outlive your dog. You just have to be careful on the installation, the glue can't be pressed out, and you have to wait for it to fully cure, but there is plenty of info on the net on doing the install correctly. Ushba recommends an 11mil bit I think and the Hilti Epoxy, I think I had read of testing of various epoxy and some work signifigantly better than others. So I'd look for that research as well. Edited to add, I am too cheap to buy and place them, but I don't live or climb on the coast either. Anyone who owns a boat and keeps it moored at the coast in the salt water can tell you about the corrosion properties of stainless.

#1 choice is Titanium glue ins. This is the number one choice by a wide margin. Ushba Titanium Link #2 is Type 316 Stainless Steel glue ins then Wedge anchors. a distant 3nd is Standard Stainless - which is type 304. I have the deal for you, let me know how many you need. MarkD, how much am I selling 1/2 x 3-3/4 type 316 bolts for? I basically am selling for cost and 10% to handle freight out of Fla. and paperwork. If it was me, and the cliff was high quality and likely to see lots of people, I'd love to do Titanium. It is the best. However, I think they sell for something like $15.95 each or some outrageous amount like that. Putting 304 hangers on 316 studs will cause some galvanic action (corrosion), painting the hangers would get you additional years out of the hangers but they still would be the first to go. You should be able to extend the useful life if you coated all exposed parts with clear epoxy. The studs would still be in good condition when you saw that the hangers were looking like shit, the first place to corrode on the hanger would be the exposed part nearest to touching the stud. It would be visible and thus safe for some future climber. Type 316 chain is available and that would be the prefered material for a type 316 wedge anchor if you don't go with the Tortuga Titanium glues in. You would get years and years of service from them, and you should be able to extend that if you coated all exposed parts with clear epoxy. You would want to use clear so any underneath corrosion would be visible. The very worst thing would be any steel wedge anchor, where the sleeve would rust through, and the placement would be shit, but it would not even be visible to the naked eye, being below surface and all, so it might be dangerous as hell, and no one would know till it failed. Like an Alien that way:-) (oh shit, bet this is headed to spray now.... damn)

Works for me too with a HUGE Cautionary tale: If you want to get there early, might be best to clip your short rope to the tree back off the edge, drop your climbing rope off the wisdom tooth chains, then use the tree rope to back up the anchor, and with a broom, nutpick and gloves -rap down and clean to where you can't touch the rock any more, it would be good. If you had those fancy cams handy - you might be able to stick them in the crack as you rap and pull your self into the rock if you wanted too. Slowly getting to the main point which is this: Troy (Cyclone) reported that a woman who lived in one of the houses had told him early in the summer that the rock the climbers climbed on was moving as if it was going to fall off the cliff. I figured she was talking about Birds since thats the view the houses are looking at, and checked it very, very carefully: it's not moving. I wonder if it's an optical illusion to them, and that a lower rock is actually moving, but it looks to them like climbers are on it. Point is, be tied onto the tree and look slowly and carefully as you head to the edge and the chains, cause you might be on a truck sized boulder thats gonna pitch as soon as you step on it. Pay particular attention to see if there is any gaps in the dirt back off the edge of the cliff which may be the canary in the coal mine. If you even are feeling a nervous tick in the back of your brain go with your gut feeling, stay the hell off of it and lets deal with it some weekend with pry bars and spotters at the base. I'm serious, I have not seen anyone on that route since I last did it perhaps 15 years ago. It appears to rarely, if ever, get done, which is sad cause its a hard kick assed route which is also imminantly leadable and relativly safe, considering what else is around out there I mean. Troy, you remember all this from earlier? BTW, I had my windshield wipers on coming in today.

Great, I got a call from Ujahn and he wan't to run laps on something, not strain a tendon. How about if we do birds, white rabbit and Sean (and anyone game) can try wisdom tooth? More room. More climbing.

OMG Hemp, I'm such a dumbass. Next time you show up with such an amazing deal, will ya bitchslap me first to get my attention, OK? Fuck.

I'll scream like a girl for half that amount. Show me the money.

Sounds great, I'll start working on getting limber tonight and maybe by tommorrow I'll be stretched and ready.

How about tomorrow Frank, the stiffness should ease and I should be walking by then! Thanks for the info Hemp, I will miss the Butte this year, in Tibet. Last year we picked up the trash and like magic it seemed to reappeAr 15 min later. If we could get the Russians to stop breaking glass....I'd feel better about picking up the trash, otherwise it's just a revolving door you can't stop. Check out the top out to Dreamweaver to see what I mean.

It wasn't $73 when he posted it, he must be screwing with you - I clicked that link and it was more like $125. Heres a Beal: $114.95 Beal rope link Maybe we should do an intervention and get Crackman some pressure to buy one:-)

Plese make sure your naked ass is edited out before you post the pics of chicks OK?

see. no more topic. It can go back and forth now forever. _____________________________________________________ I had my little buddies out Saturday and used the blue, green, and yellow RUMR (had grey didn't use it once on 17 pitches) and did not have the chance to fall on any. I was too sore to climb on Sunday. (Old man syndrome I think)