whirlwind

not sure if I'd pick Paul, maybe Gary Johnson. but yeah then have a legitimate debate, would be a nice change.

Bernie Sanders for President!!!! Carry On.

You could always go mnt biking, its more fun in the mud anyways.

What about Cuba?

yeah i figured but it seemed like people where focused on how hard they climb at index.

one thing to consider as well, which i'm not sure anyone addressed, is that you may climb the crap out of 5.11 here in the north west; index, 11, sqam, but then go to say Indian creek, j-tree or yos where the rock is a bit different, and get ur ass handed to you are you still a 5.11 climber?

Im confused

Mine's the biggest. Whazzup Wirlwind! Try having kids, it's like an achilles that will never heal. \ Whats up E-rock, you still an eastcoaster? and yeah Im sure kids slow ya down alittle, but eventually you can take them climbing too.

ops, but it was actually Citizens united amendment, that allowed corporations to be considered people, and there by entitled to free speech, which they express in the form of monetary donations to political campaigns. so again it wasn't part of the original documents that failed. I do agree how ever that the electoral college is unnecessary, and in fact gives the minority more power then the majority, for instance Didn't Gore and Kerry both win the majority vote, yet still lost the election to Bush. I would even argue that with the advance of technology that gives people the ability to be informed and vote in a reasonable amount of time, that the house of representatives is no longer necessary, and should instead be replaced with a popular vote from everyone nation wide. then at-least we could get things that we actually wanted and needed. the senate could write and release bills for a public vote.

I would keep a basic amount of gear just in case

i think the idea is to determine if a current law or bill infringes on the rights grated by the constitution. but i do agree that our political situation is basically fucked, but that's due to greedy corrupt politicians, bought and paid for by greedy corrupt corporations. not because of the constitution, but because "we the people" have failed to hold our government accountable.

dude go get it checked, i was having some issues with my lower leg/ ankle and keep using it, i ended up with a partial tear on my Achilles. it sucks and takes about 12 weeks to heal. not worth letting it slide. also, 6months later i fully tore it, and needed surgery to repair. i read that its a fairly common injury for people in there early 30's who stop training at some point then go back into sports.

lol that is what i was thinking G, and kinda hoping. I haven't climbed a hole lot since 07 myself, maybe a dozen times. I hope to change that within the next yr or 2. And Muff it was defiantly fun meeting you and climbing with you waaaaay back when, its been a little while.

Glass, i agree with your analysis, i was referring to genepires post. what it comes down to for the PUD's is they would rather spend alittle money every now and again, they probly write the repairs off in taxes anyway, then spend alot of money trying to rerun all the lines.

oh yeah, and we where talking total cost, i though, and home-runs are apart of total cost, so if you did everything with mc as it seemed like you where suggesting as the cheaper alternative, then your install would be alot more expensive then mine.

hum sounds like a plan. i dont know if my wife is into that kind stuff though.

wow way to be a dick... ok smart guy u can read a table good for you but if you actually did the math, you'd know that from table 5 #12 thhn is .0133in2 area. and from art 358 (table 1 chapter nine in the back) 60% fill of emt is .182 in2. .182/.0133=13.68 but u have to round down to 13. in article 358.22 Number of conductors (emt); it says number of conductors may not exceed % fill of table 1 chapter nine. so u can use up to the 60% fill. there would be some amperage derating due to # of conductors according to table 310.15 (b)(2)(a) but you can legally use 13 #12 thhn in a 1/2 in emt as far as mc cable goes ive only seen 3 wire and 4 wire, so i asumed that was all they made, i was probably wrong on that.

thx minx,hope you heal fast too doll. and thats the idea of the thread rob.

OK but ur talking about running one branch circuit, with mc in which case ur right. if you have multiple circuits its cheaper to run emt, bending and pulling wire takes a little longer, but u can run 3-6 branch circuits in a 1/2 emt, with #12 wire. (fill is 13 conductors) mc cable standard is 3 or 4 wire, which basically is 2 circuits max. the best way to do it is run emt, then use mc from your junction box, for individual circuts. I'll take that beer anytime.

ok man. 2 things though you cant use romex were its exposed because its not considered protected, and mc cable cost atleast 2 times as much, probably more depending on the circumstances, then it does to run hard pipe,EMT or other, and pull conductors. I have priced this out, ran a new service installed new circuits in my shop last year. by the way mc cable is considered protected and you can run it exposed. I could be wrong about PUD knowing exactly where there lines are, but I'm pretty sure they can trace them pretty well. and you said you never call them anyway. just a side note, i just graduated from a tech school electrician program with a 3.99 gpa. I'm still learning, but I know the code book pretty well. if you want to get a beer I'd be happy to show you the exact rules when it comes to running conductors, according to the NEC.

better be quiet, they can now arrest you for being dissidents, and hold you without trial.

PUD's Know where there lines are and as Feck stated they have a free service. and Conduit is there to protect the conductors from damage, period. in a lot of cases if you want to upgrade you have to upgrade the conduit size as well. but not always. there is a NEC (notational electric code ) standard for number of conductors in a race way, which is determined by the diameter of the conductors and the conduit. If you oversize your conduit in your initial install then you can simply run larger conductors in the future. if not you may have to upgrade both.

it depends where they run the cable, yes it is directly barried, but they also use conduit and its usually a good idea in residential settings to do so, especially from the transformer to the house. most the other high voltage lines would be unacessable to the normal public. 240v single phase can kill you, and so can 120v it depends on if the you get stuck on it, have heart condition's, standing in a pool of water ect ect, it usually doesn't kill people. I dubble check what i work on to make sure its not hot and only work on stuff that is off, unless im checking it with a meter. I said it would kill the fuse not cut power to the city, what i meant was, the outage would be only on the branch circuit which shorted out, and unlikely to affect a lot of other homes. I did not say its ok to work on stuff that is hot cause the fuse will protect you. most people in construction know to check for those type of things before they dig major trenches. as long as conduit is used in residential circumstances, it would not be supper easy to just dig into the line and get shocked.

Partial tear playing basketball. then fully tore it 6 months later at work. i had to jump off a piece of equipment, that was falling over, was only about 2-3 ft in the air, but i came down hard on the bad leg. thanks for the suport i hope you get healed up fast to. I have about 4 weeks before i can walk without assistance or a boot. then i hope to get into some hiking before the weather gets to terrible, I think it would be good rehab.