j_b

of course not, what I am saying is whatever the motives, it's not working and innocents are paying for it (actually even if it was working would it justify our sacrificing all these people?). So why don't we back off and try something else since there is no immediate threat. you are mistaken. Remember the population is already on the brink of disaster. The UN is bracing for a humanitarian crisis in case of war. According to scenarios there will up to 100,000's death (~250,000 in the 1st gulf war), countless refugees, etc ... which points to our lack of interest in what's best for the people of that region.

I guess it still hurts.

enough said.

oh yeah, 1) we impose sanctions that are ultimately responsabe for the death of 100,000's (and keep wanting enforcing them in hte face of common sense), 2) we gear up for war upon a people on the brink of starvation, 3) we supported this same regime for years as we knew all along what it was up to, and 4) we justify our actions by saying we want to prevent the persecution of dissidents while we continue supporting other regimes with similar practices. Only the fools and the ignorant would buy such a scenario.

as usual MtnGoat's cynicism knows no bound. It is well documented that if the Iraqis are starving today it is due to the sanctions we keep enforcing. UNICEF estimates that 350,000 children under 5 have died since 1991, this number is in addition to the typical death rate prior to the 1990 gulf war. Talk about morals all you want, until you act accordingly it does not mean squat. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/iraq/life1.shtml I hope everyone is noticing that most of the grandiose diatribes above are not supported by any links to reputable articles. As they say, the ideologues come out of the woodwork and the innocents pay the price.

instead of worrying about the reasons why the euros don't want to drop bombs on iraqis, we'd be better off worrying why we want do so. Their stance whatever the underlying motivations has no immediate death-and-life consequence, unfortunately ours does.

until you make a logical case for Iraq being an immediat threat, there is no need to threaten military action. The rest is .... obfuscation, as usual.

"if only we could turn this into another cold war, that would be enough to justify anything we might do (life was good back then, we did not have to justify our actions before the fact)"

"darn natives! if only they did what they are told, we would not have to kill them"

"Up to 30 million people demonstrated worldwide, including around 6 million in Europe, according to figures from organisers and police, although most conceded there were too many people in too many places to count. " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,897057,00.html it appears, this administration has the dubious dinstinction of causing the largest protests in history ....

sick puppy alert Trask is such a funny guy and all ....

He is not the only lunatic around. Anyhow, you still need to make the case for him being an immediate danger. Until you do so, there is no need for war.

bwahaha!

Groundswell of dissent encircles the globe From Auckland to Amsterdam, from Rio to Rome, millions of citizens poured on to the streets to make their voices heard By David Randall in London, Peter Popham in Rome and Ruth Elkins in Berlin 16 February 2003 Millions of people around the world poured on to the streets of their towns and cities yesterday to protest against the prospect of a US-led war on Iraq. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=378750

it's ok Trask you don't have to be downtown tomorrow to show you support for peace, you can do that right at home

hey cavey! just make sure you don't go shopping downtown on Saturday, traffic is going to be bad.

actually, it's time to put away the little green men. Remember? the cleaning lady is doing your room today.

looks like you trawled the cliche brigade with this thread. That's a lot of hippies and x-terras ....

"The most unusual rally is expected to be in the international territory of Antarctica, where dozens of scientists and others at the US McMurdo base on the edge of the Ross sea will take to the ice." http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,894449,00.html

huh, huh! King 5 heh? and they actually had time to discuss this in between the squashed cat on 33rd and another irrelevant happening? the only one in a hurry here, is you. You are in such a hurry to take irreversible actions (like killing people, oh wait, you won't do the killing yourself) when other options exist that it is sickening.

All of the countries with published opinion polls, show an immense majority of the people against war (70-80%) with or without UN sanctions. This of course include most of the countries in your list (turkey, UK, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Australia, etc ...). As a matter of fact, I'd venture to say that some of the local politicians are in deep trouble for misrepresenting their people. You seem very poorly informed for being as vocal as you are. "10 million join world protest rallies From Africa to Antarctica, people prepare to march for peace John Vidal Thursday February 13, 2003 The Guardian Up to 10 million people on five continents are expected to demonstrate against the probable war in Iraq on Saturday, in some of the largest peace marches ever known. Yesterday, up to 400 cities in 60 countries, from Antarctica to Pacific islands, confirmed that peace rallies, vigils and marches would take place. Of all major countries, only China is absent from the growing list which includes more than 300 cities in Europe and north America, 50 in Asia and Latin America, 10 in Africa and 20 in Australia and Oceania. " http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,894449,00.html

"Mr. Blix has already told the Council that the missiles, with a range of about 180 kilometers, or 114 miles, appeared to be a "prima facie" case of a violation by Iraq of the range limit of 150 kilometers, or about 90 miles, established by the Council. The missiles have already been given to the Iraqi armed forces, he said. The panel did not reach a conclusion about a second missile, Al Fatah, but said it required further study." "An exceeding of the range was declared," said Yuri V. Fedotov, a Russian disarmament specialist who attended a meeting here today with Mr. Blix. It should be taken "precisely as an example of cooperation" by Iraq, he said. "

what a bunch of dinosaures! if you have not noted, it's not the 'world according to Seattle' but the world according to itself. Your warmongering point of view does not have any credibility on the world stage (yeah, we know, you don't care about the world ... so, don't pretend you do).

easy SC. You know the way it goes: Powell said it, it has to be true! the (not) funny part is one would think they are overdoing it, but there is apparently little that limits the credulity of the public. I must say throwing in a little xenophobia goes a long way ....

darn natives! if only they did everything that is good for our national interest .... we would not have to kill them. is this the intellectual honesty some people were talking about?