Crackbolter

Jerome, Do you bend your knees? I thought you flipped a switch! You liar, you just act like an alpine skiier and really you are a tele freak! Okay, no boom boom tonight! At least, not until you put those alpine planks back on.

If you bolt a bong I will make a rock and ice greenhouse to grow the purply hairy stanky sticky doob.

"Remember when sex was safe and climbing was dangerous?" Don't tell me that you will always climb routes within your on-sight ability. You slowly progress through the numbers and letters. Many people did this with bolted lines at Vantage and North Bend and Leavenworth and top roped the cracks. This is normal play around here. Some of us were lucky enough to have a ropegun partner to climb with in the early days of our career. This meant that I had to stop and claen what he plugged in or clipped. It helped me move through the grades faster than most people. Some people have to work with partners at their own level and progress slower. This is a slow progress. It seems that there is more appeal to climb with natural protection than with bolts. It is worthwhile to support the environmentalist view and just ban all bolting so we can start this whole thing all over again or should we leave the ethics of the wilderness to the individual communities?

"but it is OUR OWN RESPONSIBILTY to make sure that we are as safe as possible and i believe this is acheived through personal enrichment. at the same time it is the responsibilty for everyone to protect the resources that we all love and enjoy.....bolting does neither of these two things......" Sorry, this does not mean anything if I am the party who happens to be in the vacinity and is responsible for some form of aid if your party gets hurt. I don't like blood and I avoid epic disasters caused by other people. This may be selfish but hey...aren't we all! Bolts simply make things safe.

quote: Originally posted by Gaper_#1: This is Gaper_#1, I think Crackbolter is simply looking for sympathetic people here to justify his bolting ideas publicly. That is poor judgement and he knows what is right and wrong. I never said anything about Dana's arch Crackbolter. Also you never responded to mine. Avoding subjects eh! Gaper_#1 Has spoken. Hmmmm... First of all, if I wanted sympathy I would not be looking toward climbers. What are my bolting ideas? I am not sure I understand...I'm kinda SLOE. I honestly don't know what is right. I just do it because I CAN without too much grief. If word has it that I don't bolt then you know who I am and what my ethics are? What am I suppose to respond to now? What subjects am I avioding? I want opinions and it looks like I came to the right place! - - and be marry. R-eal A-ass Y-o!

So far so good. Here is some opinion: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Yes, they are convenience bolts - I agree, and I still support them." I do not agree with convenience bolts. Bolts should be used to conserve cracks. A good example of convenience bolts are definately the ones on Ingalls. I am wondering what would be better, conserve the rock or conserve the mountaineer folks? I guess I wouldn't think twice if I had to pass them climbing up a mountain and now adays I don't even ask, I just pass. I would rather conserve the rock. Another good example of convenience bolts are on Princely Amitions. Nice 3/8" with stout chains. Not necessary to say the least. There is a sweet platform to belay from and a nice crack that would openly take a #3 metolious (which used to have a R.R. spike we had to tie off) You could also sling that freestanding pillar and be amply protected. "Please read the recently referenced ethical discussions over routes at Smith Rock, where creating holds is in the middle of the debate. " Now Smith rock is a great example of overbolting but I will admit that I kind of like it in that Basalt mud. I suck at placing gear in those cracks and am always sketch moving past it. I usually stick to 5.10 trad or easier so I never have to test if that stuff actually holds. What about Vantage? Is there a place for bolts there? Remember the Sunshine wall. Skip em or clip em. A nice crack just an arms length from that route and more bolts on that one route than on the I-90 bridge! Pope said: "As an aside, have any of ya'll ever been on bloody fingers - 10A in the city of rocks, twenty feet to the right is a beautiful piece of face climbing put up by Jeff Lowe called New Toy. total of two bolts in 80 feet. Nobody climbs it - nobody, and why - it is too damn dangerous and a fall will kill ya, so I ask - has the first ascensionist done the climbing world justice - what gives him the right to dictate the "off limits - unless you have a death wish" mentality? Unfair and sad - on public land and a scarce resource as it is - and totally selfish IMHO - but who am I to say it...." I think Pope has the best point. Do we want the climbing community to have this amount of commitment? I personally have climbed enough routes to know that at least more than once i've been 20, 30,40 or even as much as 50 feet off the ground and could have easily had a groundfall that was fatal. Or what about on routes where there are slabs to fall on. Just low enough angle and high enough to be fatal. (Rogers Corner? You could flick that rusty spinner at the top of the slab and it would spin all day!) Gaper said: "You know bolting cracks is bad and the bolts will be removed. " Lets look at Index again, Dana's arch ring a bell? Why was it bolted? I think the answer lies deep in this ethical debate. To conserve the crack. So pitons are never used again. Is it okay to use pitons to protect cracks that can not be protected by removable/conventional gear? Are bolts replacing pitons yet still degrading rock? I haven't yet established an opinion. I do know that I sure like just clipping draws to fixed anchors but the look lousy in a natural setting. Please, lets discuss this further.

I am going to stir it up some more. Work is slow today and I am bored. Please entertain me. Who thinks that it is not okay to drill into fresh virgin granite void of cracks? This is a serious discussion so if you give me a B.S. answer I will be very angry and I will have to open a can of whoopass on you. Also, Is it okay to drink and climb? Is it okay to puff on the kind green bud with lots of purply hairs and cough for ten minutes and then climb gripped? I would like to hear REAL answers not just some jubberish! Behave!

[ 08-21-2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Crackbolter ]

[ 08-21-2002, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Crackbolter ]

You suck! Come climbing in Veavengirth! Bolt so me cracks and and sketch and and rattle and and pop and and wake up and and hike hungover like me!

[ 08-21-2002, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Crackbolter ]

[ 08-21-2002, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Crackbolter ]

I'll be there! if anyone wants to help out with the upper wall garbage that would be good. I was at the upper wall last weekend and noticed that those friendly rednecks threw off a whole bunch of bottles and cans and I think I saw a tire and a diaper. The base on the far left looks like a garbage dump. I am sure there is more garbage down the hill in the woods also.

[ 08-21-2002, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Crackbolter ]

Blah, Blah, Blah! What an embarassing group. Mouth just can't stop moving, hands cant stop typing.

I suggest plentiful bolting at this crag. I can never get my cam placements to be trustworthy. I guess I just put them in for practice because I know if I fall on on that it aint gonna hold. The nut placements are bommer but they seem like they are gonna pop too. I guess I just need to stick to granite and quartz monzo.

Here is a question for all you crow bar carriers... What routes are retrobolted without the FFA or FA's approval? I can't think of any right now. Also, before you go and start yanking them out I dare you to lead the route without clipping the darn thing. Then it may warrant a little questioning but it still doesn't really allow an actual trip specially for chopping. Maybe you could just contact the FA (and discretely tell him/her that you led it without clipping that 3/8" plug. I'll bet then you will get your way unless your balls have a thicker coating of brass and they are the size of basketballs then you just need to quit leading routes and start soloing them. "Someone buy that damn drill!"

Im with ya Spacehead! Gimme that damn drill! I'll show you how to turn that 5.11 crack into a 5.9 sport route in a jiffy. No need to sit there gripped rattling off the route if you can clip and yard on draws! Lets go bolt something~

"Right now, Leavenworth climbing has no moral conscience. I am suggesting that one be developed. From your comments I can only conclude that your reasoning only goes as far as " more bolts are better" or "it is ok for anyone do drill anywhere". You are welcome to add your opinions toward the development of a "conscience", especially if it goes further than "you suck"." I will keep an eye out for you on lead turtling up a 5.5 trad route and then my partner will simulclimb past you clipping your gear as we go and then when we get to the top we will be sure to knock a couple of baseball sized trundlers while peeing down that 5.5 you so aestheticially shall ascend. Did I mention after you go home there will be nice rap anchors every 20 feet so I don't have to carry so much rope?

Can't take it Erik? Stick too far up yer asss?

How do I get to be able to hang out with the cool bar people of this message board? Is there a special handshake or wink or code word or something? Do I have to wear prana or Arc'Teryx clothing? I can lead with 4 or 5 beers in me but I get rattly and stuff. Would this qualify for a free membership to your private club? Do I need to be able to on-sight 5.12 trad or can I pull on a little gear every now and then? I live in Fremont and Ballaer is only a huck away.

What is all the fuss over bolting a crack? If there was a route 4 pitches tall and you could protect 3 or 4 sections with gear the pioneer would have to be sure to get it into the guide book what pieces to bring or the climber would have to bring a full rack to be sure he was protected. I know ethics call for the question: Scar the crack or put in a bolt?

Ain't nothin like a bolted crack! I love it when I don't have to bring gear and get to clip the bolts. I don't like pulling on cams and nuts as much as pulling on draws!