Off_White

Good ones Sisu, and like everyone else says, the grandpa joke That one's a keeper.

This thread has been weeded of spray (mostly) and put back up. Sorry about the host of deleted posts, but there was no way to do it cleaner. Express your opinions, stay on topic, and keep it civil, I think the topic merits the serious consideration many here have given it.

Here's an appropriate one Dru: game

Maybe not, I've been a sucker for that post apocalyptic shit ever since I read On The Beach ages ago.

Probably because it was based on a good novel of the same name by David Brin, I recommend it. Boundary Dam up in the NE corner of the state made a guest appearance in the movie, I thought that was the high point...

The picture of Malachite has made it look attractive to me, looks to be in a great position, and I took the description to suggest it might be an easy early season day...

Yes indeed, and Bill & Ted's was the good kind of bad, like Dude Where's My Car. Sequel sucked though. I don't see how any discussion of bad movies could overlook

Saturday was spent working in Portland, but we did squeeze in a first visit to Broughton Bluff in the afternoon. It was an interesting encounter with boot polished holds covered in a fine layer of dust. What I found particularly interesting was gawking along the base, trying to match up the confusing array of cracks, roofs, and such in the columnar basalt with the hand drawn guidebook, and none of the 6 parties I spoke with could tell me what route they were on, and most had no clue of the rating. Fun though. What's the best time of year for this crag? Sunday and Monday were spent at the Puyallup Fair providing parental support while my daughter was showing her goats.

We tried following the description in Beckey, climbed up some gully type feature more or less in line with the buttress. It got steeper, turned into technical munge with small rock ribs & grooves at maybe 70 degrees, all filled with dirt & veg. The only color I remember is green. I think we flaked the rope, but it was pretty much psychological for the leader, maybe possible to excavate a piece here or there, but mostly just pucker and go. We had mountain boots, and they were the right tool for the job. I wasn't joking about the devils club and ferns, when you've got to pull on them you notice the difference in the root structures. At some point we moved right on a ledge system, maybe as the thing we were in petered out. Ledge ended with a 20' dripping overhanging mossy rock step, looked like lots of forest climbing ahead, and we'd just had enough, convinced ourselves we were not on route and turned tail. Definitely rapped the scary grooves, but I can't recall how long that part was, maybe two pitches? We didn't make much of a dent in the thing, its a big piece of adventure for sure. I've probably got some old slides around somewhere but I'm sure they show nothing more than brush and bugged out eyeballs.

Heh, probably a good choice. I thrashed around where those guys did one fall 20 some years ago, even with the leaves shed it was not a fun time, and we didn't get any farther. Later on, a friend and I made an attempt on the Tower Route, far left side of the face, and petered out in technical brush and soggy rock steps. It was then that I learned to love devils club, because it makes a much more secure handhold than ferns. But still, the damned thing is so big and so right there, maybe its not as bad as I remember, might be worth another look....

There's probably more than one case like that, since the one I'm thinking of is probably different than the one you have in mind. I think Caveman is spot on in his bit about local communities being at odds. I'm not a Der local and don't really know who the parties involved are, but I'd guess that all of those putting up any significant number of new routes consider themselves "local" and that includes those willing to bolt next to decent placements. I only know of a couple such instances, but I don't get out that often, so I don't think my awareness of things counts for much.

The piece might have more meaning if were written in, say, Baghdad? Or if the Iraqi writing it hadn't left the country 32 years ago. Are things going so well he's ready to go back? Aside from Ayad Rahim's genetic heritage, what makes him any more credible as an observer than any other citizen of Cleveland (or Phoenix if you'd prefer)? That he's the grown up child of a family that fled Iraq in Saddam Hussein's early days as ruler? Aside from two unspecified polls, what information does he have? Don't get me wrong, I'd like to hear some good news from Iraq, but I'd like it substantiated. I certainly hope the Iraqi people come out of this better than they were pre-sanctions (Clinton policy), and they have a better chance with Saddam Hussein gone, but it's not a slam dunk by any means.

Dwayner, Sphinx is just more blunt and crude about it, but he's not any more insulting than the "clever" put downs, which are simply more effective ways to to needle people. Besides, I think what you quoted was actually intended as a compliment, and Glacierdog took it as one.

Well, I guess I've had that done to a route I helped put up years ago at Darrington. We did leave it in somewhat daunting condition, complete with 1/4" bolts, and the last one was mostly sticking out with no hanger (used a wired nut over the stud) and a 40' runout ahead. Came from drilling with a holder that had no handle, using a 12oz ball peen hammer with a cord tied to it. Drilling went sort of like: tap, tap, tap, fuck! as the hammer struck the hand holding the narrow bit holder, end eventually enough was enough. If we were diligent, we'd have gone back and tidied up. As it was, years later someone came in and poorly rap bolted (bolts not in the right place on the stance) much of the line, putting in lots of bolts but curiously leaving the scary stud in place. They stuck a hanging station in the middle of the best climbing, and generally made a mess of a sort of okay line. David Whitelaw has encouraged me to go back and restore things, essentially to do what we should have done so many years ago, but I get so little time for climbing I haven't gotten around to doing the work. I figure that makes the botched modern route at least partly my fault, due to a failure to do the right thing on the first ascent. Is leaving your first ascent a mungy dirty mess the same thing?

Yeah, I was thinking about that route this morning, I think the big issue was what was done to the Brown Dihedral, turning a great aid pitch into a bolt ladder. For me the question is somewhat academic, as I neither climb 5.12 nor am I much taken with aid climbing, but I find the question of whether free climbing is more "valuable" than aid climbing an interesting one, and a very current one with the freeing of various classic wall routes on El Cap. What about the Grand Wall, an enormously popular free (mostly free for most) climb. I'm sure it doesn't much resemble the aid climb it used to be, but I haven't heard anyone advocate for returning it to it's first ascent condition.

You know, when I find myself agreeing with Greg_W, the phrase "broad based coalition" springs to mind.

I'd guess a mashie, pre-copperhead technology.

I think Lance's observation is quite relevant to our corner of the world. Our current big tussle over bolts, about which I tend to agree with Mattp that it doesn't really seem like much of an issue in the real world, may well distract from or actually work counter to more pressing concerns like access itself. Moreover, this is a very public board, and there are lots more lurkers reading than there are people writing, and to be sure some of those watching and making notes are both media representatives and folks from the National Park Service and the Forest Service. People act as if this is all just on the internet and doesn't matter a hill of beans, but in fact its written down in a public forum that's far more durable than any conversation over a pitcher of beer somewhere. While the roosters try to assert their place in the pecking order, the fox may be checking out the henhouse.

I know the style, Sisu. Practical people live longer too.

I only checked on the provenance because it smelled like a "poodle in the microwave" story, and if it happened to someone you personally knew I'd have wanted to hear more details. It seems unlikely that an Iraqi woman in a convenience store full of good old boys would harrass anyone about the flag, which is plastered about everywhere you look these days. It seems to me that the freedom to disagree and the courage to do so is very much one of the things that this country stands for. The gates of Tenino are always open for you Sisu, but it wasn't clear if it represented heaven or hell to you.

It's harder to take out a bolt aesthetically than it is to place it well, that's for sure.

Sisu, when you post someone else's words you should attribute the source, lest other's assume you are speaking from your own experience. web page

Ho man, sorry to hear that Ralph! I mean, glad you're alive, but what a drag. I think life could be quite complete even without such an experience. Hope your recovery goes well and swiftly.

Hah, I gotta admit, I love the thread drift...