Off_White

Hey, you sound like a skier. Watch out for ropes.

Good work being the first party.

Multiple parties on the route? Not what I'd choose, too much loose stuff up high. Good on ya for looking out for those below. Seriously, if there's someone on the route, go do something like the Gerber/Sink N Face, an overall better route if you ask me, with multiple options up high in the fin area.

Ummm, who's fear of trad are we talking about? No offense, but you seem to be an unlikely candidate, is this the light of your life we're discussing?

I think the paypal account is a good idea, an easy way for donations to be managed. Medical insurance will help with that end of things, but as a self-employed person Kurt (like myself) has not been covered under L&I, which means there will be no time-loss payout from the state. Icegirl's sketch of the difficulty in keeping the rest of normal life intact as Kurt recovers is spot on, and a paypal account will lessen the managment burden for his closest support people while making it easy for donations of all sizes to be accomodated. Kurt's strong in will and body, that will give him great odds in recovering, but his strength in friendships is no less. Kudos to you all, and especially those who are putting life on hold to be there for him.

Isn't that twice in one week you've declared that? It pretty much mirrors my own thought as I crafted my epistle.

Joseph, it's not quibbling if the FA party, using information from a US Forest Service map provided to them by the relevant regulatory authority, was led to believe the route was outside the wilderness boundary. Anyway, bolts are fully legal in the wilderness, the issue there is power versus hand drilled. I believe your problem is with the bolt's existence at all, am I correct in that? I haven't done the route, but from all reports "bolt ladder" is an inaccurate inflammatory description. It's a bolt protected face climb. Isn't it something like 127 bolts in 22 pitches? Rounding up, that averages to 6 bolts per pitch, hardly a ladder. Regardless of R&I reportage, it's not a sport route, and gym climbers will be in way over their heads. Mr Noggin, are you out there? You're friends with Leland, how did he put up those pitches? I'm just curious, since THERE'S NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT RAP BOLTING ANYWHERE, but it doesn't seem that practical on this peak. Joeseph, you and I have been climbing for roughly the same amount of time, but started from very different locales. Bolt protected face climbs have always been a part of climbing in California since I started there in 1972, whereas you did not have them in Southern Illinois. While I don't dispute the validity of your experience, fact is that mine is much more the dominant paradigm. I think your position is much more fringe, and the mass groundswell of support you imagine is your due will not be forthcoming. The Delicate Arch debacle is an irrelevant but emotion freighted comparison. I appreciate your work with Beacon Rock, I wish everyone here would just accept that it's irrelevant to the current discussion and stop trying to goad you by belittling your involvement. You know that's the only reason it's brought up, don't you? There's not much point in snapping back at silly personal digs from anonymous posters. Dru's question (in another thread) about why the Burdo/Doorish climbs on Baring don't elicit the same outrage is pretty cogent if your issue is actually the larger question of bolts in alpine settings as compared to the smaller issue of appropriate motorized drilling. Why haven't your advocated chopping those routes? Is a sidebar in R&I really the crucial watermark?

Is it Faster Than You who always changes their birthday to any day they post? I know it's one of those nodder clan posters. The cake is cute.

I thought I'd ship it to spray so all you hamster minded souls can take the gloves off and tell us what you really think.

Huh, I'd have guessed it was your 14th birthday. Hope you get to do something besides work today.

this thread is over and done with, move along now, nothing to see.

Read the date on the post, this is vintage MisterE from 2003. MisterE is gone, at least for a bit.

Correct, they will be gating it at the Dingford Creek TH in an effort to make access to the wilderness more difficult.

DeChristo, I'm sure your french is abysmal. Ptitbeuh, the climbing is just fine, DeChristo is just providing disinformation to discourage visitors and in general behaving like a provincial twit.

Like a dog with a bone man, dog with a bone.

Umm, yeah, that is if you like to floss with a ball peen hammer.

Thing One and Thing Two will thank you Muffy, good luck.

Tie-in Rock bivy is a great idea, very nice location. Since you're coming from out of state, there's no sense in putting your head down and going as fast as possible, take the time to really enjoy the setting. I trust you both have decent snow skills? The spur is convex, and parties have fallen, lost control, and slid over and down the steeper north side with fatal consequences. The time I was there it developed that slightly unnerving soft glop layer over rock hard snow, but I think that was much later in the season. It's not a difficult route, but it does merit paying attention.

Hey, just remember, it takes a lot of colors to make a rainbow.

Hey, if GWB will be bringing his kneepads, I'm up for a donation. Where's that spooge graemlin?

Glad to hear this one may have a favorable outcome.

He's just sharing the highlights of snaffle.net

Sounds like the only folks whose experience was ruined was the party of four, and likely they were grateful for the person in your group who called for help. I thought party size limits only applied to wilderness areas, are the Twin Sisters in a wilderness area? You might want to do some research.

Another great night, dodging the rain. Thank you all.

Umm, Bill, are you implying that the number person is our Muffy the Wankersprayer? I don't think so, no insult intended, but the Muffster doesn't care about her spelling that much, and I don't think this issue is her windmill to tilt at.