scott_harpell

it is unatractive, unnatural and it is a hole in the rock! i got into climbing as a teenager as an extension of backpacking that i have done since i was 5. I would have been pissed then to see a bolt in a rock. how self-centered to think that "we" the climbers of the rock are the only ones that have a say in how that rock is treated? But scott...everything you pointed out is an aesthetic issue...its not an environmental one in the sense that its altering the environment... Europe...its accepted to see bolts on crags...different aesthetic value... I'm not arguing with your aesthetic point of view...those are personal...just don't tell me its causing a true impact... nature is all about the aesthetics! why should we ruin someone elses perfectly natural view so that we can feel great that we have conquered a rock that without bolts we did not have the brass to climb? a perfect example is snow creek wall. i know of many old timers (the ones who got me started hiking as a wee lass) that pass SCW. They are supposed to just deal with this visual impact as a consequence of an incredibly small fraction of the populations actions? egocentric at best. manifest destiny in the verticle realm is more like it.

it is unatractive, unnatural and it is a hole in the rock! i got into climbing as a teenager as an extension of backpacking that i have done since i was 5. I would have been pissed then to see a bolt in a rock. how self-centered to think that "we" the climbers of the rock are the only ones that have a say in how that rock is treated?

is it really? perhaps only the unique cultural-trope of being a climber can justify how we can be all earth-friendly yet drill holes into rock and insert metal hoops in it. it seems rather hypocritical for us to lambast others who are not as nature saavy, yet do something that is destructive to the rock. non-climbers see this hypocricy, so why can't we? perhaps it is because we have been grown up to believe that bolts are a necessary part of enjoying the backcountry, like wheelchair shitters at 10,000 ft.

well something to think about is: we are told to leave nature as (or better than) we found it. perhaps kassidy is correct that if we are really climbing to be with nature and respecting nature we will try to limit our impact on nature. it may be a large pill to swallow, but bolting the rock is not "leaving nature as (or better than) you found it. as fun as it is and as strong as it gets you, it still is derogatory for nature. you cannot debate this. you may say that it is relatively small transgression 'compared to bush's policies,' but do you really want to compare yourselves to the worst? i couldn't give two shits about the style or whatever. i just like getting out there. truthfully i feel guilty when i even clip bolts. i have always been taught minimal impact and this has lead me to wonder if mabe every climb need not be climbed. it is just my preference. flame on kids!

exactly.

oh sheesh. dru has put up climbing related stuff... but mabe you should try here genius.

waht are yuo talkign abuot man?

damn dutch rules!

necro did nothing wrong. not saying it was moral or anything, but he didn't say anything beyond his 1st amendment rights.

what the hell is up with the dates on this thread? they are all sept. 6th and it is at the top of the forum.

someone will have scores of PM's form erik and Iain by the end of the day.

reminds me of "stevie" and "american movie"

And Bush didn't win, you fucking git. So it looks like the answer to your question is that if he didn't win, he'd just swindle his way into office. I was waiting for some one to put that out. DFA you're my new hero! by whatever means, he won to win: To achieve success in an effort or venture. seems the effort was to become pres. he is pres. i would call that a sucess. thanks to all of you who answered my trollin. it was truly fun. same time tomorrow?

my! you guys are using quite strong language. are you angry about something? wanna talk about it? i'm here for you. we can get you through this.

And Bush didn't win, you fucking git. So it looks like the answer to your question is that if he didn't win, he'd just swindle his way into office. got two!

got one!

oh i do... to each and every one of your posts.

yeah sorry i quoted the wrong person. good to see you the other day hommes. i missed your smile

sawry mommy.

dont have one. i am a environmentally conscious person by necessity.

and it is sooo a way to build up an aid rack.

get it over with an'

what color turban would you wear? would you change your name to muhomad? and Allah forbid, would minx have to have stopped her overt sexual monologues?