scott_harpell

if you all wanna keep up with the personal attacks against me... that is fine. cause i can play ball, but i would prefer that we try and discuss and not get derailed by those who just pop in to stir the shit. you know who you are.

cracked see also this post. You're confused because you're confusing the aesthetic beauty/environmental concerns angle with the ruined climbing potential/climbing concerns angle. There are many arguments for and against rock modification. It is not just "ooh icky trash" versus "but dude I couldn't climb it without these bolts", though those are two of the most obvious issues.

Squaw, you weren't talking about the visual effects of bolts, you were spraying some touchy-feely bullshit about inspiration. This is irrelevant to your argument. Please continue, I feel the enlightenment seeping in. i am not just arguing against them by one argument ace. i am using 3 now try to keep up and if you find your ritalin try and add something constructive.

I like nude art!! You gotta problem w/ nude art? quite the contrary... that was my point.

what percentage of bolts are painted? 1%? ... making climbs safer through bolting is like painting over nude art to give them clothing.

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so? majority wins, minority LOSES (except w/ that asshole, Bush) Great aint it? well the majority of people will need via-ferrata to climb 90% of the climbs at index... should we be gathering iron or will you ocncede that this argument is faulty at best? Nope...won't concede...its a continuum...you said 90%...general population this is true...90% of climbers, not true... but we are talking about the general population. we do not own crags just because we are uber-cool climbers. NO! we are users just like anyother user. our climbing gives us no priviledge except the one we make by busting our ass and climbing cool shit. being a climber dont mean shit.

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so? majority wins, minority LOSES (except w/ that asshole, Bush) Great aint it? well the majority of people will need via-ferrata to climb 90% of the climbs at index... should we be gathering iron or will you ocncede that this argument is faulty at best?

why do we have to climb every climb? it is the reward for getting strong and working hard at climbing and getting a good 'head' for leading spicy routes for the elite to be able to climb these sketchy routes. i dont think every route need to be climbed by 100% of climbers. i think it is great that there are come climbs that 95% of the population wouldn't even try. it mystifies the accomplishments of those who have made the sacrifice, dedication and the effort to climb something soo hard and bold. it is in a word inspiring.

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that? Cuz 95% of the folks that climb them want the bolts... so?

chestbeat? hardly.

xactly!

so why dont they give others the chance to try the climb in its natural state? why cant you get that?

but climbers go out of there way to go on a climb and should be prepared for he endeavor. 6 year old crossign the street do so out of necessity. weak juxtaposition. bolts are for safety? well if you are concerned about safety, then climbing is not the sport for you. people die all the time doign this sport. this is a sport of calculated risks. if you aren't up for a certain climb then wait until you get stronger/bolder (alaCroft) and climb that shit!

aw sugar. ran outta ritalin?

bolting is expensive. buy some RP's instead of bolts and buy some insurance instead of a drill and go climb D.D.D.

why climb it? i dont understand this. mabe it is a different perspective on what it means to climb, but if i have to bolt the fuck outta a rock so i feel i can ascend, what have i accomplished? see my auto sig for details. as for the action... i was not talking about climbing there cheif.

i'm not doing that either. and i dont give a shit how hard you climb. my opinion is just as valid. it is a shared resource and the altercations of a few affet many. every user that is affected must have a say. everyone who is saying "so-and-so sid this is bla bla bla" are way off base. we matter. our opinions matter. i wont tell you where to climb, but i will express my opinion when i think your actions have a derogatory affect on other's experiences in the outdoors. i am not a bolt yanker and i am not a bolt placer. i think both should think carefully about the affect their actions will have on other users. the thing is, it is not possible to see bolting as restorative but it is with yanking. i dont know why you are getting so angry by my posts rudy, but mabe you need to read more carefully. i never called anyone lazy, i never told you where to climb and i think you are using the ol' cc.com strategery to discredi me by placing words in my mouth.

didn't say they were

haha sucka!

bu there is also no law against yanking bolts. so are the bolters not just as much of outlaws as the anti-bolters? so what makes the bolters in the right and the anti-bolters the wrong? public opinion? the opinions of those pulling down 5.15's?

is this the litmus test? i think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than to the average climbers opinion whose rationality is tainted by their selfish need to climb something no matter what the cost. or perhaps it is their need to see their names in print. and rudy... i dont give a shit what they climb. if i can climb 5.15 can i carve my name in the rock and 'tag' the base? because this is exactly what we are doing when we put up routes for self glorification. no matter what, we are glorifying ourselves by altering the rock rather than glorifying nature which is the reason i like to climb, hike, etc. Mabe i am making this stand alone(probably) but i dont like the idea of bolted climbs period. i also dont think how well a person climbs should decide whether they have the authority to dictate my experience in the outdoors. we all have a say whether you climb 5.15 or 5.5 or even if you dont clmib at all because other people use these areas for other purposes too. mabe i just have a different understanding of the outdoors. i also feel that the muir hut (and especially the RMI hut) should be taken out. later kids.

another way to look at this is that without overbolters, there would be no bolt yankers. true bolt-cops exacerbate the situation, but the situation is created by people with too much bloody money and not enough action.

ignorance is no excuse. doesn't work with the law. "mister officer! i didn't know that you aren't allowed to drive on the shoulder in grid-lock traffic!" riiiiight

oil is old school. you wont catch me using it.

mt. kenya is beautiful... i would like to hop on one of those ice routes, but i hear they are dissapearing fast.