Alpinfox

Yes we do. SpecialEd has been experimenting with sheep for decades. BA-DUM-CHIIIIIING!!!! ...and again, we have been genetically engineering animals for thousands of years.

People have eaten pretty much nothing BUT genetically engineered food for the last 10,000 years. Genetic engineering via selective and restrictive breeding is just as much "unnatural" as DNA splicing. That said, genetic engineering of sterile crops whose growth is dependent upon specific AND PATENTED chemical fertilizers/pesticides is very worrisome. (Monsanto does this by the way). Note that this is NOT worrisome because of the "genetic boogeyman" problem, but from the standpoint of global economics and food security.

Buy THIS BOOK. Hubba Hubba falls at Leavenworth would be a good first ice climb. Alpental could be good too.

Hey, Have you guys heard about this thing going on on Mount Hood? Sounds pretty nutz. Apparently there was a "Y" in the snow and some ice picks were found.

Hey, Have you guys heard about this thing going on on Mount Hood? Sounds pretty nutz. Apparently there was a "Y" in the snow and some ice picks were found.

ah... well? Work sucks and I'd rather be climbin' some pole in the basement of the Canadian Foreign Legion Hall in Lillooet, BC, drinking shitloads of very expensive, very watery Canadian "beer" while >100 old people have a dart competition upstairs, and looking forward to climbing Synchronicity the next day. You?

Can we accept that answer judges? ... No, I'm sorry, you're going to need to be more specific.

In the two SAR organizations that I have been involved with, all SAR members are required to have basic first aid/CPR (basically worthless), but many have first responder, EMT, or paramedic training, and there are even a few trauma nurses and physicians in SAR. Are the military PJs trained in crevasse rescue, high angle rescue, snow/ice anchors, etc? Can they climb technical snow/ice/rock terrain? I don't know much about them. I would guess that there are very very few military para-rescuers with the skill set that the PMR and CragRat teams have. Speed is certainly essential, and more air support in search&rescue operations would be great.

Depends on the Sheriff's dept. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Again, it depends on the particular sheriff's office and the personality and disposition of the particular deputy in charge of SAR operations. At best, the sheriff's office defers to the SAR team for issues related to technical rescue, search strategy, etc which, in my opinion, usually results in a more efficient and effective operation. At worst, the sheriff's office bungles the whole operation by their failure to understand the logistics of a technical rescue. "We'll just do a grid search of this whole mountainside." Because taxpayers don't want to pay for it. Military rescue teams are not trained in technical climbing and need the assistance of people with that expertise to transport injured climbers to less difficult terrain. Also, many rescues are effected without air support. Canada has a fantastic professional mountain rescue group that has its own helicopters and full-time professional rescuers. I think it would be great if we had a team like that in the PNW. Yes, it could be better. Park, these are great questions.

Phil, As a member of a mountain rescue group, I'd like to answer your first question. SAR groups in the Pacific Northwest are pretty much 100% volunteer. We make the decision to go out and look for lost folks (only a very, very small fraction of which are climbers on technical, i.e. dangerous, terrain by the way) out of the goodness of our hearts and because many of us are climbers and would like to have folks return the favor and come help us out if we ever get into trouble. Plus, it's kinda fun to leave work and go climbing when your pager buzzes. I suppose you could say that SAR groups are "risking their lives" by searching for lost climbers, but you should know that a very different risk metric is employed during a SAR mission than when climbing. The safety of the rescuers is the #1 priority during a SAR mission. That is why the SAR groups haven't gone up into the storm on Hood earlier. One climbs much more carefully, slowly, and with more redundant safety and backup systems during a rescue than in normal climbing. All of this serves to reduce the risk to the rescuers to the greatest degree possible. Of course, not all risk can be eliminated, but rest assured that the SAR groups are well trained to keep themselves safe. For your second point: It's my understanding that these guys started their climb in good weather and with a sufficiently large weather window to complete their climb. The delay caused by an apparent injury to one of the party, combined with an earlier than expected arrival of the storm resulted in them getting stuck. Your comments are not helpful and could possibly be hurtful to some of the people emotionally involved in this rescue. If you'd like to second guess the climbers decisions, I would suggest you find another thread on this bulletin board to do so.

Click Me Thanks to the guys on Ascensionist.com for finding this. edit: requires RealPlayer I think. I hate realplayer. 2nd edit: Can't believe G-spitter didn't correct my horrendous mispelling.

Here is a good resource for tracking weather conditions on Mt. Hood: LINK Best wishes to the climbers, families, and rescuers.

I'd say no. Highs of 11 deg > freezing and lows of 2-3 deg < freezing are not going to be kind to existing ice and won't result in new ice formation. However, the good news is that I predict good ice conditions next week. This week will be warm and wet, and starting this weekend it will be cold (highs of 31 lows of 20). The moisture should feed some of those anemic climbs that weren't quite "in" this past weekend, and then the cold temps will freeze stuff up. My advice is that you "otter" work this weekend and take Wed/Thr off for ice.

Thanks! Champagne was great. Always a good idea to have your first ice of the season be (probably) your hardest lead to date. I agree that Trotsky's was in tough shape. Dave did it several years ago and said it really was a three then. This time we all agreed it was four-ish; especially when leading it in the dark. I'd really like to get on COTS.

Did you guys lead COTS and Champagne or TR them? Was Champagne very wet? Were you there on Friday (the 8th) or Saturday? I was there on Friday and didn't see you guys. AlpineDave's TR

BUMP!!! Let's see those pics!

BUMP! I wish I could go climb JLTL tomorrow! Sounds like it's probably in right now, but warmer weather is on the way for the weekend. GITTERDUN!!! edit: Hey Dru, can you repost the Bridal Veil area topo picture? It doesn't seem to be attached anymore.

A pretty slow year for me climbing wise. Didn't get to WA Pass this year which is certainly cause for . I did get a few great climbs in, but my favorite thing was watching my girlfriend lead some trad climbs with confidence. Ice: 3 pitches of FA WI3+ish in WA It's All-Der, Abiel Peak, 4p, AI4, FA Rock: Lots and Lots of Index+Leavenworth craggin. Thin Fingers (not quite redpoint) Davis-Holland+Lovin' Arms Colchuck Balanced Rock, West Face Mt. Stuart, CNR car-to-car Lots of stuff at City of Rocks (CRACK OF DOOM!) A few days at Red Rocks (Mushroom People!) Five pitches of newness at Darrington A couple trips to Tieton. Godzilla+Sloe Children Mountaineering: Not a goddamn thing. Other: Bought a house!

Post deleted by Alpinfox

So you say. I believe nothing that the left says. Such is our current state of affairs in this country. The boy has cried wolf one too many times, and there's been far too much hyperbole for me to believe any of what is being posited about this bill in this debate. Read the fucking bill yourself you dumbshit. You can read can't you?

yeah.

Good post ChucK.

You mean joining into some sort of International Criminal Court? Why that would be just CRAZY.

The goal of of these Islamic fundamentalists is to destroy our "heathen" society. Since they do not have the power/tools to attack us conventionally, they have adopted neo-guerilla warfare tactics which we label "terrorism" with the goal of disrupting our society by spreading fear. If we pass legislation that disolves the heart and soul of our legal system - the right of the accused to a speedy, fair, transparent, and just trial and the assumption of innocence until guilt is proven - I would argue that the terrorists have achieved at least one of their goals. We must not allow them to scare us into becoming an unjust society. Not only will we be losing what America stands for, but by condoning torture, unfair and secret trials, we will give substance to the claims of the Islamic fundamentalists who claim we are evil oppressors. We must remain true to our ideals - the ideals of freedom, justice, and dignity for all people - if we are to defeat the murderous, bigoted, and repressive ideology of these terrorists. I may be a touch paranoid, but I can easily imagine a future where American citizens are scared to voice anti-governmental opinions for fear of being labelled a "terrorist", jailed, intimidated, etc. Some Republicans are already throwing around labels like "terroist aider" or something like that for those that are trying to stand up for justice. I see a new age of McCarthyism being born.

Imprisoning people without access to a lawyer, without any prompt trial system, torturing them, prosecuting them with secret evidence... Those are great ideals. Clearly the Republican Party is making the world a better place and making America a beacon of light in an unjust world.