Bug

Actually, I was whining not suggesting.

While I am flattered at being quoted, I believe that the freedom to debate indefinately is one of the strong points of the internet. I would vote to unlock the thread. Those who spray, define themselves. If it was not important, nobody would read it or care about it much less post in the thread.

How about New York and DC? I gave my daughters their choice. That's what they chose.

Im confused by what this means. Is your argument that it is overbolted for the grade or that it is bolted at all? Since it sounds like neither one of us has ever climbed it (and maybe neither of us is in a position to really judge it), maybe we should both climb it this summer and reconvene here afterwards. I'm perfectly willing to change my position if conditions warrant it. My point is that comparing it to a 5.11 route to somehow justify bolting it is not accurate. I am sure it is great fun, nay, super fun. In my days of putting up routes we assessed the commitment value of a route given its location, difficulty, setting etc. While I understand the arguements in favor of this route, it sets a dangerous precedent for wilderness ethics that I would not want to be a part of supporting. I have placed bolts very sparingly in the wilderness when linking otherwise unlinked trad lines. These routes are still being done and are considered "Sporty" but "adequately" protected. The most bolts I have placed on any one pitch was two. I made good use of tricams, stacked stoppers, opposition, etc to avoid bolts in the wilderness wherever possible. From what I have heard, the decision was made to just make IB accessible to the masses and it ignores many natural placement oportunities. So yes, let's climb it and post a TR. Who wouldn't want to read that?.

It is my understanding that there are just a few moves of 10a/b on the entire route. The difference between the number of people who get scetched out on 11 vs 10a/b is huge.

An inability to find "adequate" protection on your part should not constitute a need for bolts on the part of every other climber who goes there forever and ever. Anyway, if you guys insist on putting your opinions out there, I will put mine out there. We will never agree. Feel free to let this stupid "debate" die.

If so, I think everyone who criticized the bolts should be required to go climb it. Cause I'd put my money on it never being climbed again if they've been removed. Is it better to have an unbolted line that never gets climbed, or a bolted route that sees regular traffic and enjoyment? This is rhetorical - we already know everyone's position.... I can no longer get up the gendarme on the nr of Stuart. Would someone please bolt it for me? I'm sure I could do it if all I had to do was clip bolts. And this would make it more accessible to the masses of fat old farts like me..... Please don't respond with rhetorical answers. We already know everyone's positions........

I used to get a bottle of red wine and watch a sunset. With kids, dogs, and houses it gets more complicated but a closure ritual is still important.

Your bitchiness has been sorely missed.

Pax, Thanks for posting this little gem. I came to this area in 89 and happened upon Mt Garfield while searching for the hot springs in July of 90. I had rope and rack and started up mid face and veered right. I was up three short pitches when I turned around leaving two wired stoppers and a sling. I thought I would get back but never did.

X 2 X3

A little small for all the gear but plenty places to tie stuff on.

"Polyp: The first Public Viewing of a President's Anus."

Yeah. Don't these guys know about our standards here on CC.com? :[]

Irresponsible dog.

Uh, have you seen the latest issue of National Geographic?

Cut your spray time in half and apply yourself to helping fix the "quote thing". It's not just for grownups anymore. Shit. We would probably be able to view Avatar in 3D in spray if you did that for one year.

I recently got in trouble for not asking if they were pregnant. "What?? Did you think I was getting this fat for no reason?" See, Keith? Just goes to show you ya can't win wit' dem bishes... That's why males have a well developed "fight or flight" reflex. Choada, straighten her out by asking her if she's pregnant AFTER she has the baby. Post a TR.

Yes. I have one and love it. My daughters fight over it too.

This is a poorly conceived bill on every level. First and foremost, it attacks my personal freedom by dictating what I have in my pockets. Second, it provides no benefit to an educated back country traveler/climber. Third, it singles out one of the smallest user groups arbitrarily. This is most likely due to what sells in the press and what politicians think they can leverage to get re-elected. And finally, the time spent legislating this bill should be invested in far more important issues during this economic downturn. Especially considering the fact that this bill would be un-enforcable. In general, the introduction of this bill and the attention it is getting, however small, displays a gross misunderstanding of the facts and a misappropriation of the trust placed in our elected officials.

Post here a lot and you will learn everything you need. The simple act of posting here has increased my climbing ability from 5.5 to 5.6. I hope to try trad climbing next year. In short, don't get wrapped up in spray and don't let sprayers derail you on this site. There are a lot of great people who will go out with you. Be very honest about what you know etc. Post TR's so people get to know you a little more. Keep getting out and keep getting out.

I don't talk about age and females. I also don't ask them if they are pregnant. At 50, I know this much.

Sounds good but I am booked for the year. My Denali adventure with internet climbers taught me a lot. 1. One winter trip up Rainier to meet and greet is not enough. 2. If someone "Really wants to be the leader", don't let him. In fact, kick him off the team. 3. Take skiis even if everyone else on your team doesn't. 4. List camp duties and assign them on a rotating schedule. 5. Don't put a team together on the internet.

It will no longer be a "just" war.

Actually, everyone was in agreement until God created Eve. Right?