Bug

Moore gives the figure of 30%. That part is pure troll though he may be accurate, who really knows? Everyone knows about the police roadblocks preventing low income neighborhoods (largely democratic) from getting to the polls. Some refuse to admitt it is true. I seriously believe it because I have friends who saw them in effect. Aren't you supposed to be banned by now?

Why shouldn't they ban conservatives? You guys took the whitehouse and congress with only 30% of the voters supporting republicans or fascists or whatever they are these days. You banned voters from getting to the polls in Florida. You banned teh democratic process from playing out by passing it to the supreme court prematurely. I say BAN the conservatives! Why NOT?

Come to ropeup and look at racks. Ask questions. What YOU want will vary a bit. Some people tend to rack for range others rack for their finger and hand size. Emphasis varies. Range is what most people are suggesting here.

Thanks for the beta. But where are the smoking ledges? You left out the smoking ledges.

Thanks for responding with some feeling. What I'm talking about is the real world. Whenever I have been involved or near a bolting discussion, it doesn't go according to the rules of engagement on this board. This board will not last if it continues to enforce a false reality. There must be a better way.

While I agree with Rumr's point, the delivery sucks. But that is something I miss about the bolting discussions of old. They had passion and the thoughts and feelings were right out there after being dipped in testosterone. It captivated the reader....No it compelled the reader to take up a position. Now we are just a bunch of tea party goers. Bolting has it's place. That place is not everywhere. No one has the right to decide for EVERYONE else where bolts will go. They are too permanent. Bolting in the wilderness is questionable at best. Using a power drill in the wilderness is just plain assanine. If you do it, YOU SUCK!

Dung Beetles rule.

Ouch.

I don't really know where we top out. It could be anywhere on the top of the ridge though. The route traverses right but we have to end up going way left to the descent gully for OuterSpace etc. Web site? Don't know. I just looked at the guide book. I was up there once and got up about 3/4 of a pitch when the water thing got to be too much. So I know exactly where it starts and how not to go. Catbird likes it. How bad could it be?

Oops. Three is too many. Unless we can all promise to get along. We will have to be up and moving early and keep the focus on efficiency (racking quickly, rope stacking, etc). Should be fine unless it's not. Then we have to bail on manky chalkstones and wedged pieces of rotten wood.

Sounds like the Fox is out. Who else wants to climb Champagne? Dr?

In the Bitterroots and Sawtooths there are long bolted routes going up. Some even have approaches of a couple miles and as much as 600 of vertical to the base. This will become "more common" or worse "accepted as the local style" as more get put up. I apposed them and lost friends. I would do it again since it served to slow down the process-not the individuals but the popularity of doing those kinds of routes. The same walls saw a couple earlier bolted routes in the seventies which is what inspired the bolters to go there in the first place. By going on record as apposing this kind of developement, I helped slow it down. I would still climb there but I would not call it a "classic Montana climbing area" when there are so many untouched cracks in the range.

Lock it in! You can climb with newbies Sunday. That's my plan. So there'll be two of us and they will get just as much time with a village idiot. And if it rains Sat, I want to do Champagne Sun.

Champagne is on SnowCreek wall behind Easter tower. 5 or 6 pitches of 5.7. Have rope and rack. Need smo.., er, partner. Must be able to hump up to the base in reasonable time. Will rope up for "4th class gully". PM me if interested.

Power drills allow more bolts to be placed in a shorter amount of time. The amount of time they last is evidenced by the old bolts we all find in remote places. So the term "radical" is applied here as what futuer generations will find. Grid bolting on the North ridge of Stuart? After you have one bolt on a wall, what difference will one more make? After you have ten bolted routes on a wall, how much difference will one more route make? After one side of the mountain has been........ Where does it end? Who is to say? With roads in RAREII lands, the FS used this kind of logic. Once an area is cut by a road, it is no longer RAREII. Blast away. Radical is for future generations to decide. The future is when ever the last bolt you place today is still detectable. What will the cumulative results be? Wilderness was hard fought for. There are many other places to drill. Leave SOMETHING for future generations even if it only by virtue of the fact that hand drills are slower.

My definition of "radical" is not meant to imply "wrong". Democracy is radical historically speaking. Bolting is radical in that it is a permanent change.

Wilderness power drillers are making the decisions for everyone. It is lopsided and short sighted and narrowly considered. Boaring a hole into solid granite is a radical decision. In many cases fine by me when done with hand tools and carefully placed but radical none the less. Discuss.

I am just going up for the day Friday to explore whatever seems most probable. I may go up Thursday night and bivy at the trailhead. Don't know yet as I am moving this week. All strong backs welcome.

bug-- you know i like you but in this case stfu. i know this is a troll by pope but i'll take the bait. it's not yes men that are required it's basic civility that's required. that is all. have a nice day minx pppppfffffffttttt! oh. By the way, what does stfu mean? Civility huh? We don't want a bunch of testosterone flying around here. Just proper ladies and dried up old men. This is just another step toward obscurity for cc.com. Last one to leave, notify the mounties that there is disk space available.

Caveman and Gatterdammerung are banned too. You're next Pope. Do not buck the system. ONLY YES-MEN ALLOWED! Agree or post elsewhere.

EAT THE WEAK!

I have heard that Ginka Biloba helps with it also. Again, it depends on the body.

I have nothing to hide big brother. Please search through my underwear drawer too.

What are the chances of getting information on where they have searched and where there might be reason to search some more? Perhaps some of us with a need to just get out and hike could use the info to informally continue the search.

Better not let it out that that women thing is plural. Or correct your grammar.