Bug

Give details about the climb and the style in which it was put up. and when it was bolted. Before it was climbed?

I took the stiches out of Meredith's cheek last night. Her eye is still bruised but doesn't hurt anymore. Thanks for all your sympathy. She was pretty impressed that she was the topic of an internet forum.

Halleluyah!

Ever tighten your gators so much your toes went numb?

I'm talking about the price per barrel going up. $50 is an alltime high.

Sausage. 1 pound. eggs one dozen.

Unfortunately, most of those younger voters will not make it to the polls. Of the people who do vote in 4 of 4 general elections, 70% are 45 or older. 18-25yr olds who actually vote make up an insignificant percentage of the voters who exercise their right.

It does not take into account the "oil tax". How much more are we paying at the pump? Who gets that? It's not me. And who will pay off that deficit if we do not recover? Me.

Good question. There are a lot of bad answers out there.

Aren't you banned yet? Read Zogby's polls. Only reliable source.

Well it is bound to be a sausage fest....

2+1=? Dang! I thought that once all the conservatives were exposed they would be eliminated. Maybe tonight?

Check again. Can you still post?

Fairweather too! Or give him one three word post a week.

It is. I counted. America, Europe, Asia. Add them up since the 70's alone. I'll bet you one burger at Gustav's that evidence from sales of passive gear will point at there being millions (2M or more)of trad climbers since 1970.

How about notifying a rule violater that they are on probation and only get 2 or 3 or 4 posts a day that will be subject to edits and deletions? This gives them a chance to present their side in an "acceptable" way while at the same time encourages them to think it over carefully before wasting a post.

Wait! You haven't banned Scott_harpell and Greg_W yet! Is that a valid suggestion?

Disagree. On some routes, ability does not define safety. Take some of the new mixed ice routes in the rockies for example. And lets not forget that the only reason ANY of us can climb above 5.11 is because we were able to train in safe situations. My point is thus. You can climb 5.11 becuase you can, maybe from training, and dedication. Would you bolt a 5.6 route? Probably not. But you probably would bolt a 5.10 route either becuase of your safety on the route or you are just lazy in placing pro. You don't feel as confident with 5.10 as you do with 5.6. (I cannot climb above 5.8) Now let's say joey (fictional man) can do 5.14 all the time. He is super confident in his abilities. 5.11 is a piece of cake to him and so why should he bolt a route? In other words, joey is climbing within his abilities. I have seen bolts on routes that are 5.4 . Heck I have seen bolts placed perfectly next to fine cracks. Should those bolts be there? At what grade do bolts become acceptable? More importantly, why do bolts become more acceptable at higher grades? More risk? Or is it becuase the person is climbing out of their "comfort zone"? Should the person placing the bolts be allowed to bolt becuase a route is out of their "comfort zone" wilst another person can just climb the route being completely "in the zone" without using bolts? Which begs to question. Why do I even use a rope? It is my belief that there should be no bolts placed where natural protection would safely protect the route. This is a common understanding by my experience. If you are out of your comfort zone, back off. Just because you WANT to climb something that is out of your comfort zone does not give you the right to permanently change the route. Millions of people have taken the time to learn how to place natural protection safely. There is no excuse for bolts next to a crack. Find some top rope situations if you need to improve your abilities. And then practice aiding cracks to get used to placing gear. There are alternatives to bolting cracks.

No. I have never advocated that. Are you saying that that is the only reason any of these people have been banned? I full support chopping power drilled routes inside wilderness. That is the truth. Not a threat. Leaving out of consideration any threats of personal bodily harm, Whose ideas? Are you saying that if someone illegally and against the popular consent and agency policy, power drills in the wilderness, they should be immune from real consequences (ie informing them that someone is into chopping the route)or protected? Try again. Your rhetoric is shallow. I'm puzzled by this digression into whining about board policies. It seemed like your discussion about bolting was going pretty well.

Moore gives the figure of 30%. That part is pure troll though he may be accurate, who really knows? Everyone knows about the police roadblocks preventing low income neighborhoods (largely democratic) from getting to the polls. Some refuse to admitt it is true. I seriously believe it because I have friends who saw them in effect. Aren't you supposed to be banned by now?

Why shouldn't they ban conservatives? You guys took the whitehouse and congress with only 30% of the voters supporting republicans or fascists or whatever they are these days. You banned voters from getting to the polls in Florida. You banned teh democratic process from playing out by passing it to the supreme court prematurely. I say BAN the conservatives! Why NOT?

Come to ropeup and look at racks. Ask questions. What YOU want will vary a bit. Some people tend to rack for range others rack for their finger and hand size. Emphasis varies. Range is what most people are suggesting here.

Thanks for the beta. But where are the smoking ledges? You left out the smoking ledges.

Thanks for responding with some feeling. What I'm talking about is the real world. Whenever I have been involved or near a bolting discussion, it doesn't go according to the rules of engagement on this board. This board will not last if it continues to enforce a false reality. There must be a better way.

While I agree with Rumr's point, the delivery sucks. But that is something I miss about the bolting discussions of old. They had passion and the thoughts and feelings were right out there after being dipped in testosterone. It captivated the reader....No it compelled the reader to take up a position. Now we are just a bunch of tea party goers. Bolting has it's place. That place is not everywhere. No one has the right to decide for EVERYONE else where bolts will go. They are too permanent. Bolting in the wilderness is questionable at best. Using a power drill in the wilderness is just plain assanine. If you do it, YOU SUCK!