Bug

You will all rot in HELL for worshipping false idols like your computer. Wait, that's me. Oh well, it is by grace alone.......

I taught both of my girls how to ski for the first year. They were skiing easy intermediate by the end of the season. Mer was 3-4 Olivia was 5-6. It was ALL about the hot chocolate the first few times. Read "FUN" at all costs. I did not use straps or connector or anything of the sort. Just really short skiis and the softest, well-fitting boots I could find. This was hard for Mer as she was SO small. After the first few linked turns they were hooked. Then we went to Silver Mnt in Idaho. You can rent a house with a hot tub really cheap or book well ahead at one of the hotels at the base of the Tram. $54 a day per child included ticket, 4hr lesson and lunch. More importantly, it was actual instruction, not just babysitting on skiis.

Thanks for the pics! Great job! Makes work a little easier to endure.

So we are throwing away all "conventions", Right? No more "Off Belay"? No more "Climbing"? Just make up something new everytime you go out. Bad plan Kevbone. Someone is going to die.

Yeah. Screw the old fart system. Mattp doesn't know shit. Neither do all us other old fogies who wandered aimlessly for the last 35 years or more. We all knew the standard signals. It didn't get discussed more often than not. It just went the same way. JT, the Valley, Red Rocks, Ak, City of Rocks, Indian Creek, Bitterroots, Sawtoths, Devil's tower, Suicide, Tauquitz, Tetons-even with Europeans so it must be stupid. Just because people have used and tested the old system for centuries (Chamonix 1786), in wind, whiteout, freezing and thawing, around corners and under overhangs with and without rope drag don't mean shit. Lets change it to Gym speak because we can carry radios now. And these new kids are climbin 5.15. They MUST know better. Like I said, this is going to cause a death.

it depends what the meaning of the word "IS" is. Glad my humor didn't evade you.

Who said that? It wasn't me. You are using absolutes that remind me of the Bushites. The arbitrary point (unionization)you picked is more then 100 years into our industrialization. Why do you need to have everything be OK right now? At what cost will you try to force this? Economics involve the redistribution of scarce resources for a desired outcome. Because I do not share your timetable I am evil? I have been involved in 3rd world economic development. I have sweeted beside them and seen them rise out of mud floored shacks to apartments. Sub-standard by your estimation I am sure. Now they are sending their children to school. There is much more to come. And they had to kiss the devil (large corporations) for awhile. It takes time and patience. This is NOT the same as giving in and giving up. Take a deep breath. I'm breathing fine Bug. My apologies to you, but I took this comment the wrong way apparently: "These people had NO hope before they were being "exploited"." I just don't see why it seems your are belittling (with quotes) what is exploitation? What EXACTLY was their situation before they became industrialized? Subsistence farmers? I don't know, perhaps KK will step in an school me. I'm not just talking about China here...all of SW Asia that has "sweatshop" type stuff going on. Don't apologize to me or I will be offended. Open communications are a good thing. Emaotion is a part of us and is all too often subjugated by social norms. That is why I love the internet. We can do this. exploitation is not exploitation if it is the oly path to a better life. This isot Machiavellia. It is a process with the US standard in mind. Well, i Africa it is becoming China that gets top billing. I am not against unions or working HARD for better standards. We just can't get there without building up to it. I have felt the way your words suggest you feel. I do not trust corporations and I never will. Unions will come because as the workers become better trained, it is not economically viable to fire them and hire more starving peasants. This has worked out in many places. Efforts to hasten the process toward equality with us are often destructive to the goal.

Who said that? It wasn't me. You are using absolutes that remind me of the Bushites. The arbitrary point (unionization)you picked is more then 100 years into our industrialization. Why do you need to have everything be OK right now? At what cost will you try to force this? Economics involve the redistribution of scarce resources for a desired outcome. Because I do not share your timetable I am evil? I have been involved in 3rd world economic development. I have sweeted beside them and seen them rise out of mud floored shacks to apartments. Sub-standard by your estimation I am sure. Now they are sending their children to school. There is much more to come. And they had to kiss the devil (large corporations) for awhile. It takes time and patience. This is NOT the same as giving in and giving up. Take a deep breath.

Your words are your own. You are wallowing in selfrightuosness.

"IS" or "is"?

Whoa. Fruedian slip. "technuques"

Actually, the time it takes to get through the really hard part is getting shorter and shorter with the growing global economy and better transportation for heavy equipment and improved training technuques.

SEE!!? There is no paragraph. Check yourself in dude.

So how do you get an industrial complex up to your standards without incremental steps?

v7 IS nuts by your standard.

I feel better.

Tell them to HANG M HIGH!

This would be a good time to call your congress people.

Porter, maybe you should continue this conversation with ourself offline. Because you are missing the main point. These people had NO hope before they were being "exploited". Now they have hope. You select an arbitrary point in our industrial development and say we should hold other governments to acheiving what we could not - skip the hard part where people work for pennies a day. Would that it were possible. Japan, Mexico, Brazil and so forth went through this and in some parts are still going through it. Painfull yes. How do we get past this point without walking through it? Figure that out in your discussion and get back to us.

That was Goebels. But righto.

Keep em loaded brotha. They're comin fer bothvus

When I climbed with a friend and some of his gym friends a few months ago, they used the gym terms and I didn't know them so they assumed I was not really an experienced climber. That worked out OK since I can't climb anymore but I have wondered when a death will occur because of this new system. It is just another itteration of the differences between gym climbing and trad climbing. We are now faced with the "majority" using gym terms. I try to learn new things once in awhile just to keep my brain from atrophying. But this one has been particularly hard to swallow. Why do these newbies get to tell ME how to signal "correctly"?! The answer is simple. We suck

The trick is to find "Peace with honor."

It is a huge blow to admit to being taken by a big lie. Most will follow the big lie to the bloody end. Or to quote Ananda Coomaraswamy, "If you convince a man that you are right, he will likely believe that he was wrong."

Truth was the first casualty. As Goebels put it, "People are more easily taken by a big lie than by a small lie."