willstrickland

RE: comments on "ego" and "posturing" on our (the choppers) part. Yes, we could have just said "It's been chopped" and left it at that. Either way the discussion would have been(and did get) heated very quickly. We are obviously proud of what we did. And, Mitch just put some kindling on the fire to get the inevitable discussion/flame war into full swing. We took a bold step and to dilute those feelings with understatement would not, in my opinion, be the proper course of action. You have to understand, if we were the type to hang in the background, we probably wouldn't have been the ones up there chopping in the first place. RE:the hangers...As we discussed at the crag, if we knew who to send them to, we would stick 'em in the mail. They weren't collected as "booty" by any stretch. The hangers were left on the bolts as a plate to pry against. A couple were bent by prying or hammering during the bolt removal process, and the rest were put under some pretty heavy stress from prying...I wouldn't use them again.

quote: Originally posted by Bronco: ...put some limitations on bolting or "the man" will do it for us. Just imagine getting a permit to place some bolts for a belay station. "ok mr. climber that will be 30 days for planning review, 30 for structural..." Bronco makes a valid point, this exact scenario is now in place at Sunset, TN. Now it requires a formal review and written permission to place any bolts, and only those for TR anchors have even a slight chance of passing the review, and even those get shot down alot.

Hey allthumbs: You're a funny dude! Maybe you missed my point. The point was on LONG hikes (i.e. over 400 miles) I'd rather carry very little. Whether carrying 35 for 15 miles or 15 for 30 miles, I'd be equally as tired. It's definitely not for everyone, but it gives you plenty of time to take days off and just chill in a beautiful place, or to catch up with that hot little mamma you saw leaving town when you just arrived to resupply, or to blast through a crowd and get beyond a overcrowded campsite/watersource, or to blaze through the Smoky Mt section of the AT without having to go into tourist hell for a resupply, or etc etc etc....plus it's easier on your knees and you'll be needing those for a while longer I think. Hike your own hike, and if you really want to carry a bunch of shit, great...pack me in some MacTarnahan's Black Watch Cream Porter and a salmon steak, I'll be that irie guy at camp without the chafed raw shoulders and waist!

El Cap meadows gets frequent walk throughs by headlamped rangers, avoid bivying there. Likewise, avoid the area behind camp4 (although I did sleep there several times, I awoke to bears within three feet of my bag a few times and saw alot of rangers). Also avoid trying to sleep in the line-up for camp4 permits...got roused at 3:45am twice for that one. Manure pile is actually a pretty good place to hang, you can use the bearboxes and bivy up on the formation itself, only drawback is that the shuttle doesn't run that far down valley, upside is you're right next to El cap and the Cathedrals. You could probably bivy right next to the river in many places without any probs. Lots of people just crash in the corner of some touron's site in one of the uppity campgrounds (ask first, most will be happy to have you since you're a "crazy climber type". I've gotten alot of free beer, food, and camping this way and you get to talk with people about something other than climbing). DO NOT try to shoplift anywhere, especially the village store. I saw two parties' wall attempts end when the pre-wall shopping trip led to a team member getting busted for stealing some dumb shit in the store and going to jail. Smoke down some workers from the deli (Degnan's) sandwich counter, the ice cream shop, the bar, etc and you'll have a season-long hook up. I got essentially buy one get one free sandwiches "oops, I made the wrong order...hey man wanna extra sandwich?". Save your cup from a fountain drink and smuggle a mug from the caf, viola...free drinks and coffee for the season. Bear boxes at Manure pile are usually empty. Showers at Housekeeping Camp are easy to get free, just don't pick up their provided towel at the counter and walk on into the bathroom. I always carry my shower gear in a daypack to avoid any suspicion, just look like another touron going to the loo. After two weeks you'll have it all figured out, beta is free flowing around camp4.

Viktor, If the retro-bolter(s) had been "open and cooperative" they would have: 1. Admitted to being the culprits instead of hiding their identity. 2. Respected the future of trad climbing and never bolted an established trad-line in the first place. I know for a fact that the bolter(s) were aware that their identity was requested to be divulged. They declined. They were offered the chance to remedy the situation themselves, again they declined. Talk is cheap. We can sit here at our little boxes and rant all day, but until someone steps up and puts forth the effort to right the wrongs we're just a bunch of spray-lords. We took that step and made the effort. Pontificating may make the work day pass more quickly, but until you've looked at the history of the route and area and, the line itself (before and after), and the gear placements, you're just making noise. The line is now more aesthetic, and the tope rope anchors can easily be reached, nothing had been taken away from those who may want to climb the line but aren't up to leading it and the challenge has been restored for those who want to rise to the occasion. Anyone clipping the bolts and then claiming a "lead" of this route are disillusioned at best. "Action photos" will be forthcoming. Maybe we'll even put on a clinic on how to chop effectively. YMMV

I was the third chopper. It should be noted that we did leave the two "lower off" bolts and ring in place for future top-rope ascents/rehersal. The route and rock appear much better and in character with the rest of the crag. The bottom bolt is chopped (if there was any confusion), although being a 1/2 incher it required hacksawing and tapping the shaft back into the hole. The coming hole patch will render it invisible and there is no shaft protruding from the rock. The remainder of the bolts came out in their entirety. At least three of the offensive bolts had very good gear placements within an easy arms-reach of the bolt. These were not "dangerous" or "sketchy" placements, if they were aid pieces they would all be A1.

quote: Originally posted by specialed: Will: what variety of ultra-light parafenalia did you bring along? Titanium pipe, plastic bong? Rolling doobies would be the lightest way to go, eh? Metal, she is bad for zee health, especially zee aluminum, she eees very very bad for Papa. That was one area where I splurged, cut the handle off my toothbursh to make up for carrying the ounce of herb, and left the reading material and extra headlamp batteries that it inevitably requires out to make up for the glass. Somethings just aren't open for compromise (Guess I could have even brought the bubbler, but I knew it would get broken)

I disagree completely with your opinion. Go spend some time, and I mean real time - several months continuously, hiking. You'll find that your body gets pretty tough, your comparison base changes, and that you're so filthy that comfort is a relative concept. For me, walking 30 miles in tennis shoes with a 15lb pack was much more comfortable than doing 16 miles with 35lbs. For long hikes (AT, PCT, CDT) you're going to need to average 16 or more miles per day to finish in a reasonable time frame (i.e. before it gets nasty cold). I did 450 miles with a 37lb pack and the following year did 1600 miles with a 17lb pack. I'd never go back to carrying more for long hikes. For weekends, I carry tons of comfort stuff, I chalk it up as conditioning. After a week or two, you'll start getting rid of stuff anyway, and by the time you get 400 miles under your feet you'll have probably send home everything that you can. That still leaves most folks with 30lbs, making the extra-step is what Jardine advocates and it works. Comfort was not even slightly an issue, in fact deprivation made small comforts that much better. Getting to lounge in a double-thick thermarest chair-kit one night courtesy of some weekenders was something I'll always remember. And dude, if you're having trouble sleeping because you're uncomfortable wearing all your clothes...hike farther. I was usually so bushed by the time I did my miles and chores that all I could do was puff a nug and crash. I even stopped carrying reading materials as I never had time to mess with them. I will say that when I worked an adjudicated youth wilderness program I carried closer to 40lbs but we never hiked more than 10-12 miles per day over moderate ground. I met a dude who had made most of his gear from Tyvek (a house wrap and envelope material that's waterproof/breathable). It's super light and tough...he had a pack, insulated bivy-sack, poncho...and not much else...dude was also walking barefoot

That Homie character looks disturbingly like the Christopher character from the Sopranos...hmmm the 7-11 Mafia? The slurpee posse? The Big Gulp crew? Yes, folks, I'm bored again (or boring as the case may be)

The effect is fueled by the number chasing, ego-inflating, sport monkey, spray crowd. If your SO is climbing hard that elevates you in the number structure as well, by association. When I was bouldering in Joe's Valley alot (like 2-3 times a week) I had quite a few of the upper mid-range problems wired..to the point that I would climb one, down climb the adjacent one and climb through a third and harder one to link the three. Two of these were "area classics" and there was sure to be a small group gathered at the base. I had passed by earlier on my way to a remote corner to boulder alone. I heard one spray-lord in full effect, and later while working on a problem I hear him screaming from at least 300 yards away. I just couldn't resist, and on my way out I stopped in...Now at this point in my life I was SCRAGGLY. Hair about half dreaded and nasty, beard touching my chest, filthy fleece top with fire burn holes, slippers with gaping holes in the tops from toe-hooking, crash pad that smelled like stale beer. I took a seat to wait for the two who were qued up to take their burn. Someone spoke in their spray-worthy greeting, something to the effect of "hi there, there are some really good 2's and 3's right aorund the corner there". I just nod my head, and notice that the chicks with these spray monkeys are HOT. One of them is spraying as loudly as the guys. Well, the problem is finally empty and has yet to be finished by one of their crew. I chalk, sit down at the start, tentatively grasp the holds and look up the problem...a stream of beat starts pouring forth (and poor beta at that). I smile to myself and cruise the first, downclimb the second, and by the time I launch up the third all the "C'mons" "CROSS!!"s in fact all talk whatsoever has ceased. I traverse off the third and grab my pad, sit down and open the backpack for a mid-morning malt liquor. As soon as the crew had finished miming the sequences and qued up again, whadya know...a little hottie pulls up some pad space with me. It's a funny game, but if you're playing with the ego, there are no rules....

This always comes up in the "go light" debate: What if the shit hits the fan? If things really get gnarly, are you really better off with extra gear weighing you down? I'd rather be able to move fast and lose altitude/get over the pass/hightail it backwards/forwards than trying to hunker down and ride it out. If it gets bad enough to sit out, you're probably miserable regardless of what you have. The only thing you'll really be glad to have in those situations is fuel and food. You can stay warm with hot drinks, calories, and exercise. In my trip up the appalachian trail I was on the fast and light train and once into mid Virginia I sent even more stuff home. I was travelling with a 200wt fleece blanket, a bivy sack, one pair of shorts, one 1.5L titanium pot, a shell jacket, light wt polypro top, an expedition wt capiliene top,a coffee-can stove (wood burning), 3 ounces of gas in a minature nalgene, one 2L platypus, some iodine drops, two extra pairs of socks, a thick hat, and sunglasses...all in a 2200ci daypack. total wt with 5 days of food and a liter of water: 16lbs. And five days of food was huge at that point (I'd been hiking for two months already). The shit hit the fan in Shenandoah NP, a hanging fog and high temps about 28F, and a stiff continual 20mph wind (this was mid June). For 4 days I was cold as hell, didn't sleep much, wore everything I had, slept with my feet in my pack and socks on my hands, was either on the move or in the bivysack wrapped up. I used campfires and the hot rock method, plus hot-water bottles (platypus) at night to stay defrosted. I drank tons of hot drinks, I shivered constantly, I ate 6 days of food in 3 1/2 days. I also covered 90 miles in four days and when the weather broke I knew I had made the right choice. I gambled and lost, but the price was acceptable. Just a thought.

crashing my mountain bike some more. Going for an even 10 over the bar descents/dismounts/faceplants in the same week. headed for Hagg lake Sat, and Surveyor's Ridge in the HNF on Sun.

Nope, I didn't know I never really noticed the thing (No Fear) until the decals started showing up on all these redneck rides around the southeast. I thought it was a brand of bass boat or a band or something until I saw some ad with Osman soloing in it. About the only media I intentionally expose myself to is books, NPR, the occasional movie, and a climbing rag every now and then. I don't read mass-media drivel, don't have a TV, avoid commerical radio, blah blah blah... you get the idea

Depending on fire restrictions/wood availability you can eliminate alot of weight by using a wood-fueled stove. There's a commerical one with a battery powered "blower", but a "hobo" stove works fine. A few ounces of alcohol or gas as insurance is handy. They don't burn much wood, get incredibly hot, and no worries about carrying lbs of fuel. Leave the water filter at home, for a week just use iodine/chlorine/whatever. Leave the crazy creek at home, use a 3/4 length pad and your pack for your lower 1/4. Bivy sack instead of tent (although I do have a 4lb 2-man that's equal when there are two people, but equally as tight as a bivy). One pot for everything..no cups, coffepots, etc. No nalgenes, use 2L platypus instead they're way lighter. Sleep in clothes use lighter bag. No "creature comforts" like walkman, etc. Rain pants should be your only pants (except long undies). Take the "top loader" pocket off your pack. Plan to be either moving, or in your bag, not alot of hanging around. This will allow you to carry less insulation clothing. Leave the 2lb first aid kit at home, you can improv anything in there anyway.

So my training routine yesterday consisted of: Sitting in traffic for a 30 minute 1/4 mile. Going mountain biking and locking my keys in the truck as soon as I got to the area. Spare key was...in the truck of course! Breaking the lock off my slider rear window with a screwdriver. Crashing over the handlebars three times into briars once, horseshit once, and with my Teva-covered foot in the forks once. Driving home to find out someone wants to look at my truck (it's for sale) today..so I get to fix the window and wash/clean it on lunch today woo hoo! Now that's training my friends. The general stress of alpine climbing sohuld be pretty tame in comparison. Next time I'm staring down the gullet of a storm I'll just think..man this ain't shit, why one time...

Post was orginally about the plattitudes (that's truisms, or trite/hackneyed/ commonplace remarks for the vocabularlily challenged out there). So yeah, they do sound like some stupid damn No Fear slogans. BTW, somehow No Fear lost it's target audience of "extreme sports people" and ended up with a bunch of yokel patrons. This led some enterprising chaps in the south to develop a "copy" of the No Fear logos/decals that were the redneck No Fear...it was called "Ain't Skeerd" I wish I was making this up!

Train in Pain or Train in Vain! Go Hard or Go Home. Pain is the Price of Admission, and I want Front Row Seats!

Aliens, for all the above reasons and you never know when your interests will change. Once upon a time I thought I'd never be climbing trad routes, then I thought I'd never be aiding, then never alpine...I've gone on to enjoy all of them and aliens are the best small aid cams out there period. Single stem units allow a greater variety of placements, and the flexy stems on aliens will not kink over an edge as easily as any other cams. There is a drawback to the flexy stems though and it's this: If you ever place pieces by just ramming them in the crack (oooh, that hurts just thinking about it) which you will if you're pumped enough and can't get the trigger first try, the flex sometimes gets in the way. I place alot of TCUs without ever touching the trigger bar, primarily when the placement is ideal, the placement is a long reach, or I'm placing from a strenuous spot. I've had aliens really piss me off in these situations, but I wouldn't trade them for anything. Best thing to do is just find a buddy or two who have both kinds and go climb some routes with their racks, after several pitches you'll know what you want. FWIW, WS

So I'm out running yesterday and the whole time this mantra is running through my head: "If you're not training, someone else is" Anybody else have these stupid little trite remarks that help you train? When I used to train for the spring sports season in the middle of winter it was: "Get your ass kicked now or get it kicked later" These are usually the things that get me off the couch, when I'm actually training I try not to think at all. I'm sure Dwayner has a few: "Mickey's big mouths now and a just plain big mouth later!" "I'm the captain of my own ship, cause Capt Morgan is long gone!" Damn I'm bored...

Currently: Civil Engineer, infrastructure project management. Although I do have a Master's degree in Recreation and Park administration and plan to pursue a PhD in the field of recreation resource management.

A problem with white LED lights in general is the light is so blue-white that they don't facilitate night vision. There are some yellowish LEDs that help with seeing in low level lighting, maybe a mixture of the two would help. As for the Zoom, you can make a serious spolight out of it with a little rigging. For my main caving lamp I converted an old Petzl mega (basically a zoom with a 3 "C" cell batt pack) to a 6V set-up. Just cut the batt pack off, screw in a 6v halogen, solder on some burly mini jumper cable type clamps and get one of those square 6v batts. The set-up is heavy for sure, but for extended batt life (12 hours or more is pretty common) and a light like the sun, it can't be beat. It's easily three times as bright as a regular zoom with a halogen.

This thread is pretty funny, two links...one a news clip of an amazing feat, and one a boring rehash of bolting debate. What do we focus on...the boring shit. Some of those comments were pretty funny though, especially the girl talking about scary ice in the southeast. Only thing scary about it is that there isn't any...well any that forms regularly, and the little that does is on road cuts. You could get some good alpine practice though, lots of drytooling to connect the 1/4" patches of ice on random cliffs. Hell fire Cletus, 20 degrees is a deep freeze down there, single digits set records. A week that doesn't have a high temp above 40 is a sign of the apocalypse.

When I was hiking the appalachian trail in '98 the first day of summer was the proclaimed nude hiking day. There must have been twenty of us thru-hikers in the buff on the stretch I did that day. Pretty funny to see all these super tan arms and legs and lily white asses running around the water sources and shelters. Surprised the hell out of more than one dayhiking group as well.

Yeah Alpine K, right on! give Tricks of the Trade in Zion a shot, 60 ft of aid in 1400 ft of climbing and a 400-500ft continuous handcrack!

Well since my lame and gimpy ass can't partner up with specialed, I'll be mountain biking out near Hood River, then working overtime on Sun