willstrickland

I recommend reading the recent thread on this board (do a search) concerning cordellettes and nylon vs spectra vs vectran etc. By all accounts, it looks like plain 'ol perlon/nylon is way cheaper, plenty strong, and with some other charactersitics preferable to the super techy cordage. Actually, here's the url for the Fish page that contained most of the pertinent infoCordage Article

quote: Originally posted by specialed: Look at that nasty ass free camping spot outside Zion. There's trash everywhere and if you walk two feet into the trees theres mounds of shit and tp Until it floods every spring and washes it all down stream! Yeah, a simple composting vault toilet (right next to river, pit wouldn't be sanitary) would solve the problem and add next to no cost to the BLM. It pisses me off when they rationlize that "ohh lots of people use this area, we'll add a toilet and collect fees". HELLO dumbfucks!(not you specialed) the reason lots of people use it is BECAUSE it's free. Without free camping the climbing bum lifestlye is even harder to live legally. I'll second the emotion of being cognizant of your impacts. There are well established, well done trails, to all the major crags, please use them. [ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: willstrickland ]

From R&I.com Preventive Medicine at Indian Creek January 25, 2002 At the request of the Access Fund, informal preliminary meetings with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) to assess the impact issues at Indian Creek have begun. Due to the increased popularity of the area, camping, human waste and the trampling of cryptobiotic soil has increased dramatically. With an understaffed BLM overseeing the area (two recreation coordinators for over a million acres of land), the Access Fund is helping with area surveys, fundraising and impact awareness campaigns. "I want to emphasize that the BLM are the good guys here," said Jason Keith, policy analyst at the Access Find. "And there really aren’t any bad guys, there are just a lot more people climbing at Indian Creek now than twenty years ago." Right now, the Access Fund is asking that people tread lightly and stay in already established sites. The camping issue will likely be resolved by the installment of pit toilets at the popular areas around Bridger Jack, Superbowl and Donnelly Canyon. Of course, with the installations come fees. The Access Fund is currently trying to raise funds to pay for the toilets, and is also working toward having some self-pay and free sites. The Recreation Plan for the area is still in its infancy stage, and will tentatively be available for public comment sometime this fall. The plan will probably take affect around the spring 2003 season. --Alex McAfee I sure do hope they maintain some free camping there. If the BLM can subsidize cattle ranching on our public lands, surely they can empty a pit toilet or two a couple of times a season. Looks like the Access Fund would even foot the bill to install the shitter. Even if the sites become pay sites, don't fret my brothers, 98% of the land down there is public and there's free camping all over the place, you just may have to drive a few minutes instead of walking out of the site to the crag.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Will -Having both climbed and participated in gymnastics I can say that in my experience many parts of a routine are very scary and have the potential for injury. True it doesn't happen much but the same can be said for free soloing. Peter, perhaps a comparison to bouldering would be a lot more appropriate? Two big spotters, big cushy crash mats, not likely you'll be injured but possible...sounds like they have alot more in common ehh? A dude did die two years ago in a very short bouldering fall.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: I do have to add a comment to those who say that sport climbing reduces climbing to a merely physical endeavor. That is tantamount to saying that for example, gymnastics, has only and physical component. Ask any gymnast if there is a mental component and I am sure the response will be hell yes!PP Peter, Read what I wrote, no what you want to hear. My statement was that if bolt proliferation continues climbing will eventually come down purely to genetics and grip strength/weight ratio. Yes technique is involved and for us mere mortals it's the technique that gets us up our hardest routes. Yes there is a mental component that has to do with digging deep to hang in there for a little longer on sport routes, but that's not the mental aspect most people think of as related to climbing..it's fear control and contructive vs destructive use of fear. You can say gymnast this gymnast that, but let's face it, it's apples and oranges. Gymnasts are judged, that's righted JUDGED..evaluated on a subjective basis, on precision of movement, climbers only need to make it to the top, an objective end. Have you ever seen Dave Graham climb? What about 3 years ago? The kid had less technique than half the climbers in your local gym at the time and was still climbing 5.12 as warm ups and climbing at the top of the scale. Ward somethingorother, a 40 something New England local, with John Long-type build who's climbed 5.14 himself said about the kid (paraphrased)"When I mfirt met him he was a wicked strong scrawny kid with zero technique, now he's wicked strong with medium technique". At the top of the scale, with no mind control involved the strongest climber will eventually come out on the top of the heap of climbers. If people were establishing "sport slab" routes in the 5.13-5.14 grades I'd say, yeah Peter, you're on the mark, but that's not the case. It's about how small of a hold you can pull on on a steep wall and for how long. [ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: willstrickland ]

quote: Originally posted by Jarred Jackman: Just wondering if you had a week in the UT desert and didn't want to drive around a lot where you would go for the best hiking and climbing given the time of year. We're looking for climbing in the 5.6-5.10 range, welcome multi-pitch, but don't want any aid. thanks Well you did say desert, otherwise I'd say Little Cottonwood and Big Cottonwood for the grades you're looking for. Here are a couple of ideas (I lived in Bicknell, UT). 1. Moab - The easy choice. Awesome biking, hiking, and climbing. Potash Road has the shortest approach of any climbing area in the country. Kind of sandy, biggest concentration of routes is 5.10-5.11. Indian Creek, possibly the best crack climbing area in the world, is about 40minutes to 1 hr away (depending on the amount of RVs) not much under 5.10 there though. River Road has bouldering and some adventure style stuff as well as Long Canyon. If you're up for FAs, Long Canyon has plenty of potential. Arches is on the edge of town and as mentioned already, Owl Rock is a fun 5.8 tower that goes in two short pitches or one long one, it sees tons of traffic. Kor Ingalls is probably the most climbed desert tower, goes at old school 5.9 (crux pitch 3 is runout 5.9 10" offwidth) located in Castle Valley, about 15-20 minutes from Moab to the parking lot. Here's a pic...Kor Ingalls hits the two prominent ledges and the offwidth appears as a dark corner in this pic. CASTLETON The Fisher Towers are about 20 minutes and Ancient Art (actually the Stolen Chimney route on ancient art) located there is THE coolest summit in the desert. Also, has one of the most nerve wrackingly exposed sections of climbing (actually walking on that section) I've ever been on. It'll go at .11a with the crux protected by cloesly spaced bolts, 5.10 A0 if you only aid the bolt ladder on the first pitch, or 5.8 A0 if you french free the bolt ladder and pull on gear a couple of times on the third and fourth pitch. The .11 section is short and actually pretty easy if you're decent with stemming and pebble pinching.If you ever wanted to climb in the Fishers (and they're beautiful, worth hiking out there if nothing else) but are put off by the legendarily bad rock, Ancient Art is your ticket. Here's a pic of the summit pitch..fucking incredible ehh! Canyonlands is close too (15 minutes to 2 hours depending on where you're trying to get anbd your vehicle) A couple more pics...Castleton form the Road and Ancient Art from the hike in.and Another option is (and this depends on how much climbing vs hiking you want) the Capitol Reef area. There are some 1 and 2 pitch wingate routes in Cap Reef, mostly 5.10-5.12, but there's a cool route by bro put up called Biscuits and Gravy that's 2 pitches and goes at 5.8. The hiking is excellent there, and most of the climbing is not in any guides, go to the Capitol Gorge parking area and look up to the left at the ampitheater left of where the road turns to dirt. There are about 10 routes up there from .10-.13. A little ways down that dirt road past the pakring lot, on the right side is the Classic Handcrack...a 60m rope stretcher .10a that's mostly 5.8 with one little crux down low protected by a yellow tcu. If you're there and do the route Pussy bolt, be aware the the bolt has been chopped, take a 4.5 and 5 camalot, you'll use them. Close to Cap Reef is the San Rafael swell with lots of wingate lines, arches (check out Hondoo Arch and the untouched splitters around there) desolate terrain, free camping, rad biking etc. velvet Ridge trail right outside Bicknell is a beautiful and fun ride. Goblin Valley State park is right there and is the trippiest sandstone I've seen. Best place ever to eat shroooms and cool hiking. Here's a pic Feel free to e-mail with specific questions. I lived in that area for quite a while.

E, next time try this one: Hola pendejo, tu madre es una concha gorda [ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: willstrickland ]

quote: Originally posted by dyno merchant: So i figured it out...don't train hard. instead, find the "softest" graded routes and send them. right? so where should we go? Hey if you're after numbers for the sake of numbers that'd be the wisest course of action no? It seem that top climber play that game too. Check out this from the Gripped website: Ontario NewsTrotter, First Canadian to Just Do It (14c) says "It's Nowhere Near my Limit"Sonnie Trotter from Newmarket Ontario became the first Canadian to climb 5.14c when he sent Just Do It at Smith Rocks Oregon on the first of April. Incredibly, it was the first route he got on after a 50-hour drive. "For five years it's been my dream route," he stated after the ascent, which explains his motivation. "ItÕs my favourite route ever, with a stunning position, but itÕs nowhere near my limit. I know I can climb harder than that." Well, last I saw everyone who's climbed it in the last few years has called it soft and downgraded it to .14b or b/c. Could be the mag, could be Trotter, but has he climbed .14c? I say who gives a shit, but it seems to matter to them otherwise you'd think they would give it the most recently established grade.

The concept of a weather forecaster in the NW seems a little funny to me. Five Day forecast: Rain, Rain, Rain, Showers, Partly Cloudy with a chance of...Rain. At least the WB station here has the right idea, they just put this hot-ass chick on to sway around and say "tomorrow you'll see rain". Hey, I like it, so it's gonna feel wet huh honey?

quote: Originally posted by jblakley: Finally redpointed a 5.12a at Red Rocks this last November and in no way would I call myself a 5.12 climber. The climb I did at RR in all honesty would probably be an 11c at Smith. And here he is sending it!

Yeah man, Red Rocks National Conservation Area. Drive west on Charleston Ave in Vegas and it'll take you straight to it. Huge amount of routes of all types, one pitch sport, multi-pitch sport, long long trad, big wall. I'll on this thingFrom the road it looks like this [ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: willstrickland ]

Dru! Are you questioning Kitty Calhoun's sexual oreintation?! I'll see you in court mister. How do you save a lawyer from drowning? Take your foot off his head.

quote: Originally posted by coyote: WillS,By the way, Where in Vegas are you climbing?? I might make a trip out there....... I'll be on the Rainbow Wall Reg Route the last week of Feb. We'll probably hit it right out of the gate and then spend the remaining 4 or 5 days climbing long trad routes. I arrive in Vegas on 2/23 and fly back to Portland on 3/2.

quote: Originally posted by dyno merchant: heinouscling... If someone wants to get good fast they need to start climbing and hanging out with climbers better than them. IF you just hang out with climbers at your level all the time you may have a great time but they will struggle just like you on routes and your learning curve be slower. You know it works both ways though. For trad especially. I found that climbing with someone who was leading about a number grade or more BELOW me made me get better real quick. I ended up with all the harder leads and couldn't pass anything off to a stronger climber. Baptism by fire I guess.

I'll pass on dissing sportos for now and try to be helpful. If you're bouldering V1/2 and climbing .10+/.11- sport, and your goal is to climb .12 crimpy/vert sport there are a couple of ways to go about it. 1. Climb loads of .8, .9, .10, and .11 By the time the .11s feel easy and you can onsight a fair amount of them, the .12s will come quickly with a little work. They'll also come regularly and with alot less frustration. By spending all your time working on one or two hard routes you'll be missing out on experiencing tons of fun climbing. I'll give you that this way will take longer, but it'll make you a better climber in the long run and probably keep your motivation higher. 2. Assess your particular strength. Are you better at power, endurance, or perhaps a particular technique such as thin slab? When you figure this out, pick a project that caters to that strength. Watch a few people climb the route for the beta. Throw a TR on it and go up to feel out all the moves, don't worry much about climbing the route, just see what's up there. Find where you will clip from, the sequences, etc and memorize them, a "topo" with the holds, moves, and clip stances will help. Work the route on TR and get the moves wired or do "linkage". This is where you start from some point near the top, say two or three bolts from the top and climb to the top on lead. You increase the linkage distance and when maybe halfway down or whatever you start trying the redpoint. The idea is that you'll have climbed the top moves a whole lot and have them completely wired so that when you're tired at the end of the route you can cruise the last moves. This will get you the "5.12" alot faster, but it won't make you a "5.12 climber". There is a difference, a big one. Now, that said...ask yourself this: Do I want to climb this level to open up new and more challenges to myself and to be able to climb some really cool routes? If so then go with the first way. You'll get good and you'll have tons of cool routes under your belt. or Do I want to climb this level to be able to say I have or impress someone? If yes then go with the second way and write yourself off as a poser wannabe who likes the IDEA of climbing more than the CLIMBING itself. It's up to you, but my favorite climbs have never been my hardest ones. Still, Red Rocks is typically soft for the grade and I've onsighted my hardest routes there so maybe make a trip to Vegas. It's all about what you want. As for the crimpy/vert stuff, climb on that type terrain and you'll tune into it and develop strength etc paticular to that type terrain. That's gotta be my worst medium, thin verical crimps, but precision foot placement is huge.

FWIW, If you want cables swaged to your cams for slings(I wouldn't personally for the reasons I listed in the prior post) I can do it for you, give me a call and drop by my place sometime probably take an hour and a half to do a set. We can work out compensation via trade (I like beer, I like herb, I like entertaining stories). I've got cable in 1/16, 3/32, 1/8, 5/32, 3/16 and swages for all of 'em. PM me if you want.

quote: Originally posted by Chongo: 1) Sharma's "50 favorite" was the Rostrum because routes included in that book had to be multipitch climbs, and that was one of about 3 he'd ever done...Kroese wouldnt accept the Mandala. Not talking about that book. Go read the Climbing article on America's Best or some such thing back about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago. Had Bachar on the cover soloing The Gift if I remember correctly. The article lists their "proud five" or something like that, had profiles on Gadd, Kennan Harvey, Buhler, etc.

quote: Originally posted by pope: Finally, fat cams really don't hold any better. Friction is a function of materials (rock type, cam metal) and orthogonal force. As mentioned, bigger cams spread our the force, but they don't create more friction. Bigger cams might be stronger, perhaps less likely to deform...but I'm speculating now. I'd add this: The rock type (sandstone is what we're getting at here) is the factor where the fat cams MAY hold better. By spreading the lateral/orthognoal force over a greater surface area you are not increasing the friction per se, but the cam is less likely to track out for the following reasons: The distribution of force is less likely to crush/deform the rock which can create a slip plane (think of a bunch of tiny ball bearings)Depending on the angularity of the individual grains (and this will be a function of the particular layer of sandstone) this slip plane could provide very little in the way of friction. The fat cams have very little space between the lobes and therefore contain the crushed material (as well as crushing less in the first place) under the lobes more than a skinny lobe where the material can displace to the area between the lobes. I've blown decent placements out in dakota sandstone on aid and tracked a tcu out of wingate twice...leaving pretty impressive grooves in the rock. Believe what you want, but I had a set of fat cams when I lived in Utah and used them, maybe in reality they don't hold any better, but the extra confidence (real or imagined) was helful.

Here's the url if you wanna look at the figures: Middendorf cam analysis

Here ya go, courtsey of Middendorf: CAMS-A Technical Review (Article circa 1985)by John Middendorf Without a doubt, cams have revolutionized climbing. Ever since Jardine invented the first fully functional unit (with the proper camming angle) to the climbing community with his introduction of Friends, climbing achievement standards have advanced considerably through the use of superior technology. The way camming devices work is describable by basic engineering concepts. The principles of cams (more specifically, logarithmic spirals) described below are prerequisite to a functional camming unit design and use. Logarithmic Spirals The modern camming unit utilizes the logarithmic spiral (also known as an equiangular spiral). The logarithmic spiral is a mathematical curve which has the unique property of maintaining a constant angle between the radius and the tangent to the curve at any point on the curve (figure 1). A logarithmic spiral cam (a "constant angle cam") ensures that the line between the axle and the point of contact (the "line of force") is at a constant angle to the abutting surface, independent of how the cam is oriented. Thus the force diagram for a given camming unit will be identical no matter how it is positioned in a crack, i.e. whether it be compressed or expanded (figure 2). Friction Camming units completely depend on the friction created between the camming unit and the rock. The force created by friction is best analyzed by understanding the engineering basic law of friction: the Frictional force is equal to the coefficient of friction (u) times the Normal (perpendicular) force (F=uN). For example, a 100 pound object with a coefficient of friction of 0.50 between the object and the floor requires 50 pounds of force to move it in a horizontal direction (0.50 times 100 lbs. equals 50 lbs.). The value of the coefficient of friction is determined by the materials and shapes (on a macroscopic level) of the adjoining surfaces. Force diagrams A force diagram is an analytical tool used by engineers to determine the individual forces exerted on an object or mechanical device. Vectors depict the forces and represent the inclination and magnitude of each force. The sum of all forces exerted on an object in static equilibrium equals zero, allowing us to calculate unknown forces. Figure 3 is a force diagram for an opposed 2-cam unit (here we define Y' as the constant camming angle). Here, the vector sum of the two side forces and the pull force equals zero. Each side force vector can be represented by two perpendicular vectors, the horizontal component, N (the outward force) and the vertical component, F (the frictional force). The horizontal and vertical components of the side force are related both geometrically (F = N times the tangent of Y'), and physically. The physical relation stems from a basic law of friction explained above. Combining these two relations allows us to pinpoint the factors involved in the holding ability of a camming unit. Force diagram analysis (figure 3) S1=S2 (sum of horizontal forces) P= 2F (sum of vertical forces) Note that 2F must be greater or equal to P, the pulling force, for holding to occur. Each side force contributes one half to the overall upward component (the holding force). Geometric relation: F=N tanY' Law of friction: F=uN Combining above equations and simplifying, we arrive at the relation u>tanY' for holding to occur. Restated in plain English, this relation tells us that the coefficient of friction (u) must be greater than the tangent of the camming angle (Y') for holding to occur. Thus, if the trigonometric tangent of the camming angle is greater than the coefficient of friction, the camming unit will pull out of the rock under load. Coefficients of friction The coefficient of friction (µ) can be determined experimentally between two materials. A good general design figure determined empirically for the coefficient of friction between aluminum and rock is 0.30. Some types of rock have a greater coefficient than this with aluminum; the sandstone coefficient,however, is sometimes effectually less due to thin shear planes of the large grained, loosely cemented sandstone crystals, which explains the occasional failure of camming units in sandstone cracks. A good deal of experimental research could be done on the coefficients of friction between cams of various materials and surface characteristics and various rock-types (including icy cracks) under load, allowing cam designers to optimize even further for varying conditions and rock types. Range and Camming Angles The camming angle utilized for the shape of a camming device determines the cam's range (that is, the cam's maximum/minimum size ratio), and the cam's holding power. A larger camming angle results in a more elongated cam (use CAM program below to see this visually). Range and holding power are inversely proportional. Increasing the camming angle of a single-axle camming unit increases the range but decreases the holding power. If the tangent of the camming angle (Y') exceeds the coefficient of friction (u), the cam will pull. Note visually that a camming unit placement in a downward flare effectively decreases the camming angle and thus decreases the holding power. The larger camming angle results in a cam with more range, yet requires a higher coefficient of friction to hold the same force. Modern camming units optimize range and holding power with cam angles near 14.5 degrees. Draw your own... The mathematical equation for a logarithmic spiral is R=beaØ. To draw a logarithmic spiral curve, plot points along the curve, and connect the dots. All you need is a calculator with trigonometric functions, and a sheet of graph paper. In the equation above, R equals the radius of the curve at a given point; b is a scaling factor and can be chosen arbitrarily; e is the natural log (=2.718); a is the sine of the camming angle; and Ø is the angle of the radius (in radians). R and Ø determine points on a curve plotted in polar coordinates; for a given Ø , R can be calculated and the point (R, Ø) can be plotted. Alternatively, we can use (x,y) coordinates (allowing us to use normal graph paper) to plot points along the logarithmic spiral curve. To do this, first create a chart as shown in figure 5. The conversion factor of Ø from degrees to radians is: Ø(radians) = 2/360 x Ø(degrees). Pi () is equal to 3.1416. The x and y values can be plotted and connected creating a curve as in figure 6. Once the curve is plotted, the axle hole must be drilled at the origin (x,y = 0,0); material must be added around the hole. To create smoother curves, create a chart with more values of Ø and plot more points. To create curves with differing cam angles, substitute the desired camming angle in the equation a=sin(Y). Determining camming angles of an actual cam. It is possible to calculate the camming angle of an actual cam with two measurements of the length of the cam at two points 90 degrees apart (Figure 7). Plug the two values of R1 and R2 into the equation on figure 7 to arrive at the camming angle.

quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: Ok so I've been travelling all over Appalachia trying to find this girl Rachel...no dice... Go to the Gunks

Jay, You've essentially answered your own questions. When you do routes such as the ones you describe, even easy ones...Snake Dike comes to mind...they definitely don't feel like a sport route. By removing the "head" factor, you eliminate a huge factor in climbing the route. If bolt proliferation continues, climbing will be reduced to genetics where the dude with the strongest grip strength to weight ratio will always be the best climber (Dave Graham is an example, read the description one famous female sporto gives of seeing him onsight some hard route at Rifle a few years ago, botching every sequence and still pulling it off on strength alone). Ever wonder why one of Sharma's self-proclaimed top climbs was a trad route (Rostrum with Excellent Adventure finish)

Let me correct myself a little: quote: Originally posted by willstrickland: The size of the cam lobes themselves only affect the distribution of the lateral force, for example those "fat cams" metolius makes simply spread the lateral force over a greater area. This isn't entirely correct, since a larger cam (i.e. a #3 vs a #2) will have a great axle to contact point length and have a great "lever" factor for lack of a better term. This point was implied in my post before, just want to be clear.

Ok, I can beat Dru to the punch I guess since it's early. The size of the cam lobes themselves only affect the distribution of the lateral force, for example those "fat cams" metolius makes simply spread the lateral force over a greater area. The degree of lateral force that is transmitted is related to the cam angle (basically related to the radius of curvature of the lobe). The new metolius "power cams" or some such moniker claim a better holding power. They achieve this by changing the cam angle to transmit more force laterally. Old school cams tended to have a strait circular radius curvature, some now incorporate a spiral/logarithmic curvature to a small degree although they claim a constant cam angle will perform better. The multiplier effect is actually very small in the case of cams. It's more a function of the axle to contact point length acting in a similar way as a lever than of the physics of the cam lobe multiplying force during the transmission to lateral force. Any ME out there feel free to make this analysis more accurate. I'm much better with water/hydraulics/pollutants etc and statics/dynamics was a long time ago.

quote: Originally posted by imorris: Detach, scurry, attach, detach, scurry, repeat as necessary. And it's always necessary. Jus' kidding. Doesn't matter how you get down the slope. I guess I just hate 13 year old punk kids w/ no f'ing manners, all who seem to snowboard. Yeah, that sucks you just have to know there's flats on the run and carry enough speed. I've wanted to switch to clicker bindings for a long time for that very reason. The fashion thing kills me, I'm out there riding in my climbing gear all the way down to the Scarpa Alphas, ugliest ensemble on the hill. You're on the mark about the manners, man I'm a no-manner punk now, I must have been a REAL asshole at 14. I guess I almost get as annoyed by people who decide to take a sit-down break in the middle of a tight chute (like the middle of the Ridge Run at meadows) as the 12 yr old punks screaming by. I rode that run twice and both times almost mauled someone in their 30's who decided that having their entire crew of six sit down around a blind corner with the six of them spaced all the way across the gully was a good idea. Visibility was pretty bad and I barely threaded them. 'course maybe I'm just a Georgia hick and don't know hill etiquette, could be...