Pencil_Pusher

For some reason this thread reminds me of a t-shirt, with the same cartoonist as the avy poodle. It's got a rat wincing in pain, with the title being something like, "My mom never loved me. Feel my pain." My favorite is the one with the grinning old rat, hammer in one hand, chisel in the other and a tatoo on his arm: "Recently paroled ex-hardman."

That was informative. I'd ask, but you know what they say: "If you're asking 'how much', you can't afford it anyhow!"

Expired edit time??? Okay, so my goggles are "Scott". Probably the same ones, made in China and shipped here where they put their different company names on them. Double lens, something as you described about the inside lens becoming easily scratched. Well, I guess you get what you pay for. I tried mine on again last night and they actually feel comfy. I suppose when it's cold enough, the rubber hardens and then it's not so comfy but that's me whining.

Okay, I'm calling bullshit. I toned down my initial response considerably before I posted it, but after reading your subsequent bullshit, no mas. I may be wrong about the percentages, but I'd guess the avalanche 'science' is about 60% knowledge and 40% voodoo hodge/podge shit. I busted my ass up the standard route on Granite Mtn on the 29th and the avy danger there was low to nonexistent. Sure we can all speculate to no end on what MAY happen, but nobody can definitively say what WILL happen. And yet we get these monday morning quarterbacks quipping about what 'prudent' is, what 'readily available' info there was, how three bumfucks in Timbuktu got rescued in five minutes... on and on. There are many variables to consider. Until you know what factors contributed to this slide (and the following rescue), it's a bit presumptuous to speculate otherwise, especially with such strong words. Now if you dug a pit on that slope that day and used whatever prior avy research you had taken from NWAC to factor in this assessment, I'll shut my mouth. "Death trap"... I'd say something, but it'd just get edited out. I apologize to others if my post seems harsh but sometimes you got to take a stand and I say Peter Baer is full of shit on this one. I didn't even know the people involved but why don't you wait until someone from the scene gives an evaluation. Then maybe we can all learn from this, if there is anything to be learned.

I'm going to hop in on your post, figuring if your snowball's-chance-in-hell post works, maybe mine will too. Lost/left behind: orange screamer with two booty biners on Saber, back in July. Clipped to rusty piton on route.

Mine are yellow tinted too... Maybe you could repair it yourself if the cushioning starts to come loose. Impatience had me tear it all off once it started drooping in front of my eyes when I'd try to hold the cushioning as I put the goggles on.

"...a prudent choice" ??? We can all play monday morning quarterback. The NWAC reports aren't indicative of local conditions. Therein, how were local conditions assessed by the group? We'll all find out soon enough.

Truly sick and demented going all the way to Smith for a day of numbing-cold climbing! But I love it, great TR! That TR makes my run around Green Lake yesterday seem very warm and dry in comparison! Coffee and Clif Bars with bone chilling climbing in rock shoes and a ten hour drive all in one day... makes me nauseous just reading about it.

A small Utah outfit that sells gear for the aid-climbing freaks of this world. They also sell other climbing gear and Avy Poodle t-shirts. They have a website as well, but I don't remember it.

MEC sells some yellow foam ones that do a pretty good job cushioning the hip and ribs from the rocks. www.mec.ca Plus, they're cheap and light!

"Sh-it, if this is gonna be that kind of party, I'm gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

Don't go for the cheapest $20 pair! I don't know or care what brand it was, it seems all they had was one brand anyhow. It was the cheapest and the foam cushioning came off after three uses (three separate outings). I still use them without the cushioning but mainly because I'm a cheap sucker.

Nicely put in so few words. I also liked Norman Clyde's reasoning... I do feel edgy at times when I haven't gotten my dose. Yet, my own fear is what has kept me alive over the years. Now I just need to breed to pass those genes on!

Until they come out with Howitzers or low-flying supersonic aircraft runs, perhaps our money would be best spent now sending it to the victim's family. Anyone out there in la-la land know of a memorial fund for Don Dovey?

The Seattle REI has a pair on display/ for sale. I thought the length adjustment was to accomodate different boot sizes.

Guess what time of the year it is? 2003! For me, I'd like to start leading 5.8 and go through the painful finger and hand jam apprenticeship. I'd also like to combine nutrition and training so I can have a better suffer-fest year. Sub 24hr Wonderland Trail, sub 14hr Olympus r/t, Mt Robson N Face (fear takes precedence over time). How about y'all? It should be interesting to re-visit this thread as either the goals become realized or as the new year (2004) approaches... to reflect and see if dreams were realized. Consider this a challenge then. If you post it, viewers will hold you accountable. That should be impetus enough for self-motivation.

Thumbs up for MtNative. I'm all for keeping that gate closed and making people rent snowmobiles or ski in. Kudos to alpinedave and crew, visiting the area and coming back with some cool (and nipply, for topless) photos of their ice climbing adventures.

Maybe this shift in guiding services is why the NPS is doubling the climbing fee, perhaps guesstimating the number of climbers will increase significantly in the coming years. $$

Yep sketchfest, I confirmed it: you're just not purdy enough to be on this show. While opening the oln link, I saw that photo and thought #3 was Dr Ginger Lea Southall and sure enough, she's on the list... go figure. She's hotter than a two dollar pistol. I recall one of her stories involving creative uses out of the borrowed "altitude-tent" (that simulates higher altitudes than those experienced in Florida)... Denali provided for many stories involving her I also recall seeing the ad for this trip in some magazine a while ago. Good luck for everyone involved. Unlike the post about any guide company that accepts this is a "loon", rather they're smart as hell getting all that publicity. Undoubtedly it will be a struggle as all guided trips are in terms of acceptable levels of risk, the nature of the beast. If the old lady can sue McD's for the hot coffee, certainly mountaineering isn't immune to such "liabilities". The release of liability form, the trip taking place in a foreign country, and dainbramage from altitude affecting memory should lessen such instances.

4WD, Allison is convinced she needs it... why? Carry your tire chains year-round. Sure may be dirtier and not as convenient as 4wd, but you've got a beer budget with a champagne taste. That said, buy a cheap car (make sure it passes emissions b4 you buy it). Much to the chagrin of previous girlfriends, I've gotten by for the past six years on $1k cars. They're cheap, they usually last a year or two, and you can always buy another one if it breaks down. Nobody wants to steal them. They vary in gas mileage. You don't really care about spending money to wash them or do preventitive maintenance. At $1k per year and cheap insurance, you're better off financially in the long run as well. That's bang for the buck.

Maybe you could join forces with Erden (and crew?).

Awesome post, Graupel. The next meeting is January 9th although now I'm not sure whether that's at REI or the Mtnrs clubhouse.

There's another hearing January 9th at REI, I think.

The obvious answer to Lambone's situation is that the climbers find a bag of pitons, ropes, and chocolate bars left by climbers from previous years. I did especially like the 120m fall scenario. Also, I was hesitant to read the answers but discovered that was my ego pushing through. So I read them with interest and liked the answers. That suicide-slip knot is for the birds. I can't say I particularly like the body-weight anchor idea, but it is a rather good one I didn't know about for a situation I wouldn't "particularly like" to be in.

Yeah, good TR. I don't have the balls to solo that, not even in rock shoes in the summer. I know it's all mental, but the price is not what I'm willing to pay. Still, that was an excellent TR of a route I've never done in the day or at night. I still wonder who those two dudes were in 2001 on Liberty Bell that soloed past us in jeans with parachutes on their backs to BASE jump on the Liberty Crack side. A big muscle dude and a scrawny english dude, if I remember correctly.