Peter_Puget

Dwayner you are out of touch with modern sport climbing. I'd hope the younger one would also show an interest and then try to turn them into the equivlalent of Serena and Venus Willaims. Then I'd sit back and watch the money pour in. They'd be team Ingersol-Rand!!!

Ole friend Dwayner - Certainly you know I have been very consistant regarding this and my prescription for the cure. How useful was all that vitriol? Appearently not very. It just drives a wedge between people preventing beneficial discourse. Those who just want to enjoy a fight or scream loudly rant like the DDD debate. Those who care to create change reach out to one another with a friendly hand. So...big hug Dwayner! PP

OK Can’t resist this topic after all. Must be Monday I don’t want to work time! Basically – I agree bolted cracks are a NO! NO! Quotes and comments follow: Quote from SZY – “Likewise old schoolers (with a loss of adventure I guess) are continually placing bolts near cracks and gear placements in a quest for making new routes in order to speed up the need for new editions of guidebooks…” Am I correct in concluding that this is a indirect way of saying that Viktor is a crack bolter. If so, have you discussed this issue with him. What was his response? If not why slam him publicly without first giving him the courtesy of a direct discussion? Quote from Retro- “I think that public humiliation may be the solution. If anyone claims these prizes they can be blacklisted and have feces flung at them when they are sighted at the crags” Hasn’t kept you from posting. Quote from Haireball - “new-age sport-route = bolt ladder = why bother?” Certainly you must not be serious or your experience with sport routes is quite limited. Go try Roothless (sp?) on the Drip wall and tell me it’s the same as climbing a bolt ladder. Quote from - dberdinka “While I did not climb any of them, one appears to have 3 bolts spaced out along a 10’ crack and a bolt every 4’ beyond that. This route was mentioned recently on this site but I was surprised to see that it still existed.” How bad is the problem. How many bolts have been placed next to protectable cracks? How many routes? Last year RafaelH asked people to list the names of routes bolted when good crack protection was available. Very few routes where on the list. I don’t think this one was on it but was it bolted at that time? I seem to think so. If new routes are springing up despite continued debate on this site how effective is the debate? Have you made an attempt to contact Viktor and have him pass word to the FA party word of your concerns? Quote from -Gregw – “A generation of climbers is being brought up, or introduced to climbing, in the relative safety of the climbing gym. Thus, "badass" gym climbers make the move outdoors without the benefit of an education in style and ethics, or with ethics and style jaded by the safe bolt locations on indoor lead climbs.” Seems like most of the questionable routes in the Icicle are actually at the lower end of the difficulty scale. Not something a “Badass” would aspire to. Do you know who is putting these routes up or are their genrational and gym status determined merely armchair/pub club reasoning? Quote from glen “If anyone has questions on the ethics of that, jst go back to the Beckey guides.” The Leavenworth guide (old orange paperback) and the old Index guide both discuss unethical behavior by climbers. Not just bolting but pin placement too. Seems like a settled issue wouldn’t be brought up in two consecutive decades! Go read Mountain 63? (the Squamish issue) and find out more about Beckey and bolts.

The whole Trad vs. Sport thing and usually defined is pretty much the construction of marketing types. I would say that a better distinction between trad and sport isn't wilderness v. gym, or bolts v. trad pro. but rather how they envision climbs. EG: a mutual friend of Off White and myself was around last summer and while he was here we pretty much climbed bolt protected routes. Yet he wouldn't get on any route that just ended in space. That is the route must have a logical/aesthetic finish (no lower off from a blank spot)or he wouldn't touch it. It didn't matter how fun the move would be. This to me pretty much sums up the real difference between sport and trad. climbing. PP

Nope Kathy just over your head.

Egads! Here I sit doing nothing and Cavey starts yelling at me. Allison never came to my aid. I am so alone.

LG - It wasn't Cavey i sjust being himself

I'm going to grind Gaper #2's mug in the sand tonight!!!

Dru - You forgot the thumbs Up!!!!!!!!!!

No! Just imagining someone freein g that roof!

Hurry Allison I need you!(Forgot the thumbs up!)

Hurry Allison I need you!

One thing Dru didn't mention was danger to those below from loose rock. Especially if people are nailing it! [ 06-11-2002, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

:)http://www.brainemail.com/ [ 06-11-2002, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Be nice. Allison come help me please!

Actually Cavey You'd be down for sure! Down on the ground with your jaw open in astonishment. Anyway you slice it hanging on thru that roof is an amazing thing. Certainly the route more impressive as a free route than an loose funky aid one. I remember Eric Wienstien once telling me that anyone can climb 5.11. This was back when there were very few 5.12s. I wonder what he'd have thought of 5.13! [ 06-11-2002, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Thought this guy deserved a thread of its own. Posted on another thread by Travis!:------------------------Limestone sporto cliff eh? How about basalt? Talked to a guy at Murrin Sunday who just climbed the Black Dyke...Free. Free at last, bolted all the way with the possibility of aiding the 5.12 and 5.13 pitches on bolts. Now that's a sport climb!

http://salon.com/mwt/sust/2002/06/11/nuge/index.html

I too can ateest to the usefulness of Trig. Just last week I was straining to stay awake in a meeting that was seemingly endless when all of the sudden I was inspired to design some garage gyms. Trig was essential in calulating the dimensions. Too bad I didn't have a trig functions on my calc and had to resort to quick approximations. But everyone thought ole Peter was hard at work taking notes and checking the numbers that were being spewed forth. My homework ought to be doing simple sums by hand as without a calc. I am worthless!

Dude, I was just catching up on my sleep over at summitstrokeyourpost.com and I saw that our boy 'Tiva referred to a female forest ranger as a WHORE....now THAT is classy. That guy's got it GOING ON, man! [ 06-09-2002, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: poptart ]

Thanks Dru. Maybe thats why I haven't seen any! By the way did REI stop selling Friends?

Anybody try these guys yet or will I be the first? Haven't even seen tham but a tiny voice in my head is saying buy buy buy!.

Hate to come down on you MA but somebody has too. I was surprised and saddened as I read your TR. How can you be so irresponsible? While you may consider it fun to risk your life so brazenly think of the many lurkers who may/will get the wrong idea. First: You did not register your ascent. Second: Imitating "Twight's climb all night in one big push" style was uneccessarily dangerous. Would it have killed you to bivi? Third: Solo? What would have happened if you fell and started a chain reaction? What if the large woman passed you and then fell herself? You would have suffered a long night under her thigh. Such behavior gives the sport a bad name. Remember all that equipment you have can never take the place of experience. PP

Lambone - How narrow are they? Long? Weird thing is that they state that the new (and patented) design resulte din a stronger unit. This must be true only in the micro sizes as whe I compare the larger zeros with other brands they come up short! I must be missing something. SO Lamb are you buying some or sticking w/ aliens?

Tried that this evening. It's a bit different but seems to do the job.