Lambone

Yeah, it's hard to figure out which is which from the topo. The one I was refering to is the first pitch off the ground. Not far left of Thin Fingers. It goes up and heads left under an arching roof/flake. it is labled as as the C3 Variation in the guidebook. The anchors are about 15 feet up a straight seam above the arch. This pitch is mostly protcted from rain by the Large Roof above (The tru Narrow Arrow overhang?) There is another pitch to the left which may be the Direct Narrow Arrow, I'm not sure. My partner did this one time in the rain and almost decked when he blew an Alien. We were buzzin from cheap beer... The second pitch (above the C3 variation) looks fun. there are some fixed pins in a thin seam in a shalow corner. I want to do that sometime, but it's hard to tell where it goes above the roof from below. Can you clarify any of this DCramer?

Yeh we didn't have any when we did Zod clean either...they hadn't been produced yet...but regular aliens seemed to work fine. The TC variation seems to be the obvious way to go, it's much more direct and avoids that leftward traverse(or pendi) under the roof. we didn't do it, cause my partner wanted to practice a pendulum...I think the rock is kinda crappy on that pitch no matter which way you go. If you take the variation it would be easy to link that short pitch with the chimney pitch.

IceIceBaby, I'd say those are fair judgements. Although I've slept 20+ nights in mine and haven't had any problems with the corners or webbing. I'm small, so the size doesn't bother me, I think it's fine, but I allways take the outside! I'd like to compare it with the metolious...

One thing about that Narrow Arrow route is that it is hard to get an anchor in at the base for soloing, but that thread happened last week...good route, the variation is super fun

True dat... Don't they feel like cheating?

Peter, Yes...we did bring a hammer/pins/and heads on the Zodiac, and I have carried a hammer on green Drag-on. A clean ascent on Zodiac is dependent on lots of fixed gear(which some people may claim is not really clean climbing, but thats another topic). Periodicaly people choose to clean the fixed gear off a route, either by choice, or more unfortunate circumstances. we didn't know what the status of the fixed gear was, and we did'nt want to rap from high up should we get stopped without heads. That is just plain smart. At one point my partner called for the pins halfway through the Nipple pitch. we told him to fuck off and watched him whine and cry for a half hour or so moving off some inverted cam hooks and blue Ball-nutz. But he did it, and it was all goo...but damn he was pissed for a while about that! I brought a hammer (no pins) on GD once for cleaning my stoppers and stuff (to pound on the nut tool). And to reset some of the fixed pins on the second pitch should they be loose, they weren't, so the hammer wasn't used. If the fixed gear on GD, 4 or 5 pins were gone I think you could still easily aid past on cam hooks. There are no heads on the route that are necessary. Although I did see one on the last pitch...why it was placed in a bomber blue alien crack I have no idea. Anyway, I don't care if they pounded pins or not. It was just another thing to bullshit about instead of doing work! BTW, that Knifeblade towards the top of the 3rd pitch is the scaries pine I have ever moved off (that wasn't a rusty RURP). That thing is only in about 3/4 of an inch!

What really matters is that your buddy made it down ok. I'd say that was worth a pin. But I agree, if you knew pins would be the best option from the begininng you should have chosen either an easier, or harder route. DC's guide book says that some people still nail a few pins on GD, and you can easily tell where this happens. I just think that it's unescesary. But perhaps if I was in your parners shoes clawing through the snow looking at a big fall, I would have done the same...

Matt, I've also used the Fish single ledge on a wall. It was nice, sometimes I had to fight to get the pipes together, other times it was easy...I don't know, some sort of zen thing I guess. Did'nt get to try in heavy winds which I was thankfull for. IceIce, How many times have you used the BD ledge? At first i hated it as well, because it is not straightforward to set up and break down unless you know THE WAY. Once you've dialed THE WAY, it is the easiest ledge to rig by far. We watched some guys spend two hours fucking with their A5 double while we spent 5 minutes getting our cozy home ready. I love chillin on the ledge with only open space below. Definately my favorite part of wall climbing.

I'd say it's worth a try, but it would be good to keep this forum alive as well.

Other things to consider b, is that stuff does fall from the upper wall, especialy after snow and ice build up. With 30 inches of new snow, it may not have been the samrtest place to be...just a thought.

b, I'm not upset about this. Just offering my opinion, please don't take it personaly. Where the pin was pounded makes a big difference. If it was in the junk rock at the top of the pitch then that is'nt so bad. But if it was in the flaring crack, then it was bogus. Personaly I would have fixed a nut and bailed off, before nailiing. But those are just standars I impose in myself...

Stretch dome has a pretty high profile Ryland, I don't think i'd want to be in one on Denali, unless you don't mind digging and building walls, then it could be a good base tent. Don't know about the other one...

Hey Greek, what are temps like in the summer up there? We should meet in Ashland and go!

Hi Matt! Good to see your "face" here again! I've got the BD double skylounge. Your more than welcome to take it for a test ride. It sits in my basement 98% of the year. But on those few trips a season it is well worth it! Best things about it: -It really is as easy as they say it is to set up. I can launch it solo and have it all tensioned in 3-5 minutes. Same with breaking it down. Even easier with a partner. The first couple of times doing it can be a bit awkward, but once you figure it out it goes like butter. -The rain fly connection is sweet. You can leave your fly staged in the bag at night, and if the drizzle comes, just reach up, open the stuff sac, and you've got a tent. -Other than that it is pretty comfy and bomber. Drawbacks: -Price...it's spendy. I got mine cheap. -Weight...it's heavy, the heaviest. Kinda sucks to carry on your own. The benefit is that you can give your partner the shit bucket/poop tube to carry. Fair trade IMO. I sling a shoulder strap on it and tote it like Ace Venturas gatling gun in Predetor! -The fly is coated nylon. So I wouldn't use it on a high altitude wall, or if you plan to be in it every night. But it's perfect for the rare summer squal in Yos. Definately carry a fly on a grade VI, and get the spreader pole. Sex- Mine is the recalled one, so I'm afraid to try that, lest break the rivets and drop into the drink. Someday I'll send it back...Plus my wife won't go near it. Design on bottom- How about dead body outline. I'll be in Yos from mid june-mid july. We should hook up!

Hey b, just for future reference, the "Narrow Arrow" pitch w/C3 variation on the lower town wall is a good "aid in the rain pitch" it's mostly sheltered. We did it one afternoon and bivied in the rain just to practice with the ledge fly and whatnot. It's a neat place to sleep, just above the trees, but the train sucks! Cheers, sorry to harp on ya about the pins

Pope, I agree with TimL, yes it does bother me that someone is pounding pins on the Green Dra-gon, especialy the first pitch, which is the easiest pitch on the route. It is a clean trade route, has been for a long time and should be respected as that, plus it has been free climbed! Second, no I don't think a snow storm justifies nailing on this pitch. I've climbed it in a heavy down pour...not much difference other than tempreature. Yes the top 4th class moves are scary when wet, they are run out. But you can get good cams in before comiting to the blocky scrambleing. Pin's in the mountains are a fifferent story, the Upper-Town wall (routes like TC and DG) is a crag, a place for people to practice their clean aid skills for bigger projects, and it should be preserved as that. Thats just my opinion.

Wow, web site says Lows of +2 and highs of 11! How can Honeyman be in, or anything for that matter???

b, I know this is obvious, but you really shouldn't hammer pins on that pitch, or any pitch of the GD for that matter. More important than that, you DEFINATELY shouldn't admit that you did on this web site!

Hey Cavey, read the Matthew Buckel report. I think he mentions something about bad hooks and small heads...

I use a big hex to pound the nut tool with. that way i don't piss off the clean freaks who'd be pissed if they saw a hammer...

That's cool bigwalling, I'm glad your getting after it at a ripe age. Just don't bite off more than your ready to chew. I won't tell you what you are ready for or not, you gotta figure that out for yourself. My only suggestion is to work up to hard aid slowly, thats what I am doing at least... With most rating systems, the + in A3+ means that the pitch has bad rock or bad fall potential. Either are not fun to deal with if is your first A3 pitch. If it is "new wave" A3+ pitch, which it could be if it is a relatively new route, then you could be looking at lots of hard hooking, small heading, and BIG whipper potential. Anyway, just letting you know what you might be infor on a route on the Badge. But I shouldn't talk because I've never actually climbed at Squamish! Good luck man, use your head!

I was on my way to school today when I saw two flatbed trucks out by the new athletic complex (by the stadium). It looked like thay had some fake rocks on them... so I walked back to check it out and sure enough, they we unloading large sections of a pre-fab climbing wall. Looked like it'd be a good size when all put together. There were 20 or so pieces that were about 5 by 10or15 feet. Anyway, maybe you all have been spraying how this wall is going to suck for a month now, but I'm outa the loop these days. Just thought I'd share. Don't know anything else about it....

Sal, from what I've read of yours here, I'm assuming that you are pretty good with placing pro. So that part won't slow you down so much. The tricky part is dialing your system with all the extra clutter. I won't tell you how to do it, cause you'll teach yourself while up there (unless you have specific question). But my advice to you would be to keep it simple and streamlined at first. Carry the bare minimum that you will need for the specific crack you pick and reduce the clutter. I think this helps anyones learning curve the most when first getting in the aiders. The more intricit the system, the longer it will take and the more frustrated you will get, which hurts the curve. If your toproping a crack, just bring the peices you need and leap frog them, don't carry the full rack. And focus on staying relaxed. I find the more relaxed I am, the quicker the pitch gows. Good whiskey helps for this aspect of aiding in the rain. Enjoy!

I especialy like the doubled up screamer on the first peice. He was thinking....just a bit confused I guess. To give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe the belayer is practicing his lower out technique

sorry spray master...hadn't seen that one...