Lambone

no way, man...I need to hold onto that stuff for blackmailing purposes... it's a hornets nest in there though...sheesh. mostly they just talk about you.

Hey cracked, you know where this goes right? Shove it there so we don't have to listen to yo talk anymore...mmmkay

i-am-bone dude...sheesh... WTF is your Avatar supposed to be anyway? Some kinda Valantines Day dildo?

Notice my name is no-longer brown?! I have dropped the chains that bound me to moderatordom...now I can spray freely amongst all you fuckers... So give it your best shot...

use 1/4" rivets like everyone says, or don't do it at all. that is your only safe bet.

ya know guys, yer really arguing about appels and oranges here... Bolts increase traffic, and quality increases traffic. Anyone whos been climbing for a while has seen plenty increased traffic on trad climbs and on sport climbs. increased traffic everywhere, there are a multitude of factors that increase traffic, word of mouth, giudbooks, new trails, access roads, closures in other areas, newer/safer bolts or advancement in trad protection... so jeeze...what's the point in arguing over that?

I didn't read through all the sugestions here, but you might want to try talking to a geologist...they cut alot of rocks in half. "glen" on this site would be a good person to email.

I think I have climbed Godzilla more times then any route in Washington. I guess the reason was that Index was my favorite place to climb, the apporach is short, and it is just difficult enough that it provides a good chalange and pump, but never scary and allways options for good pro. My kinda route, cool climb.

Mt Shasta...at least that's where I'm going. our chances are questionable

I don't understand, are you condoning that it be ignored? Why even have Wilderness are as in the first place then? Why not just have all National Deforistation Service and BLM designation, that way the govt and private companies could go in and pilage it as well...from you post it sounds like you think they might as well...

WOW, 2nd time using crampons eh? sheesh...gald you made it man. Seriously, what are beginners thinking when they attempt this route? All that ice climbg sounds pretty damn fun to me, sounds like perfect conditions... Sucks about that accident though...bad stuff.

ummmm...you haven't been paying attention to whats been going on around here in the past week or so have you? you may wnat to browse through the Access forum, or at least read this thread from the begining.

I don't think bolts are banned in wilderness areas, although they tried with the "Fixed Anchor Ban," Just power drills.

I applaud the formation of this "WCC" unfortunately I assume out-of-State'rs cannot be included other than offer verbal or financial support...? One question/suggestion to add to your "Looking ahead" list, Do you anticipate posting some sort of offical stance on issues involving climbing in the state of Washington? In order to win my full support and I assume others as well, I would need to know what you stand for as a group.

Gordon, I think you need to make a distinction here. There are people who are anti-bolt altogether, like pope for example. Then ther are people who are against the drilling of bolts in designated Wilderness with power drills. It really comes down to the fundemental principles of why Wilderness Areas were developed in the first place(of which I admit to only know the basics of). But one of these primary principles: no mechanized equipment or vehicles. Right? Power Drill...doesn't belong in a Wilderness area, period. Neither do alot of things. Mt Bikes (which is a bummer, but I can deal), Motorcycles/ATVs, chainsaws...etc, the list goes on and on. For some reason helicopters are excluded, for which I'm not sure why... So you have some people out there, maybe 1/2 of 1 percent of the total recreational user population who thinks that it is ok to break those rules, that they can get away with it, hell no buddy is back there anyway right? Yeah, well, it's not long till somebody finds out...through a web site, a friend, a magazine, a guide book...whats the difference, people find out about it. Then everyone has to pay the price, especialy when those responsible for the wrong doing do not fess up to their actions.

Still, lota routes put up on El Cap (for example) with a hand drill since the advent of the Bosch...am I right?

I don't know who did it, only the route...and if you go back to page one or two you can see that I did out the route allready...thanks. Anyway, it's not like I'm the one who let the cat-out-of-the-bag here, I just picked up on all this yesterday and this discussion has been going on for almost a week.

uhuh, sure...did they bother to ask the FS? and to gordons statement, and pope, I got nothing against bolts or power drills. I do have something against selfish bastards that threaten the entire climbing community and our future access by ignoring policy. I feel the same way about people carrying their shit down off El Cap or Camp Muir, same difference really, people that are to lazy to deserve the CHOP!

I totaly agree with you here pope. Once I found out (just recently) that the IB route and other route(s) in the Darrington area (both in a wilderness), were bolted with a Power drill my whole attitude towards this situation changed. I'm not necisarily against bolting with a power drill, I've never done it, but I have assisted those who have. However, when you are in Wilderness Boundries or within a National Park, the rules of the game change and need to be upheld or it affects us all. People that take Power dirlls into the Wilderness...anywhere, or up onto cliffs likee El Capitan are extremely selfish and lazy. They do not respect the manner in which generations of climbers have toiled with a hand drill because it was required by Law. I belive those people should be called out. Their mark on the wilderness should be made an example of and erased as thouroughly as possible, by the perpitrator. And they should be held accountable for what ever consequences are required by the Law. I think as a user group we need to police ourselves (because the land managers do not have resources to do that) and uphold this ethic. Otherwise access to these areas will continue to be chalanged in the future, for our children....and theirs. I think once word gets out to the masses around the country that this so-called "Worlds Longest Sport Route" was bolted in a Wilderness area with a power drill, on rappel non the less, some serious shit is going to hit the fan. It will be on the cover of all the rags for sure. Then mister environmental activist isn't going to need to search for the name "pope" in cc.com Spray to get his evidence, it will be in print, in bold letters. These guys fucked up bad, and if everything I have heard is just a rumor milll, then they need to come out and step up and defend their actions. And I know of other similar situations that have occured illegaly in the last year or so in another state that is even worse, and it pisses me of something serious, and I'm not alone on that.... My $.02

somebody did that to my "Start" button on my PC once...it sucked...thats what i get fro trying to download porn I guess...

ha cool! Hidden valley looks sweet! Did you make any turns? We were two of those gapers on the south side...although we forgot our camo...and our REI koflach Verticals...we didn't fit in at all. Hidden valley looks much prettier then Lake Helen. How long did that approach take you? Seems worth it. Also, where did you hear 70+ mile an hour winds Sat night, a guess or was that confirmed? Sure felt like it... Hotlum Bollum this weekend...

Bill, Me thinks that climbers and their bolts and trails are just the ammunition they are looking for to fight their missguided battles. Are you sure they are hippies?

maybe I'm wrong, but didn't bolt clipping become in vogue like almost 20 years ago, back with pink lycra??? the crowds of all out door enthusiest...climbers, mt bikers, skiers, motocrossers, kyakers, backpackers, hunters, fly fishermen, waterskiers, Mt Si hikers...etc, have all increased proportionaly in the last 10 or so years, for many reasons...get over it.

dude, scroll up, I did that one allready...

No, that's not at all true, none of it. All i said was that I encourage people to go climb in the mountains, not that I taught a mountaineering class. You see, unlike you I like encouraging people to take up climbing. And for the small details, we did not teach with a gri-gri, we taught folks to fall, not take, there were no certifications other than what they needed to lead in the gym, and they were specificly told that they were not being taught to climb outdoors, only in the gym. i'm sure it's still like that, but I haven't been there in two years. God you are such a fucker.