Lambone

Gordon, I think you need to make a distinction here. There are people who are anti-bolt altogether, like pope for example. Then ther are people who are against the drilling of bolts in designated Wilderness with power drills. It really comes down to the fundemental principles of why Wilderness Areas were developed in the first place(of which I admit to only know the basics of). But one of these primary principles: no mechanized equipment or vehicles. Right? Power Drill...doesn't belong in a Wilderness area, period. Neither do alot of things. Mt Bikes (which is a bummer, but I can deal), Motorcycles/ATVs, chainsaws...etc, the list goes on and on. For some reason helicopters are excluded, for which I'm not sure why... So you have some people out there, maybe 1/2 of 1 percent of the total recreational user population who thinks that it is ok to break those rules, that they can get away with it, hell no buddy is back there anyway right? Yeah, well, it's not long till somebody finds out...through a web site, a friend, a magazine, a guide book...whats the difference, people find out about it. Then everyone has to pay the price, especialy when those responsible for the wrong doing do not fess up to their actions.

Still, lota routes put up on El Cap (for example) with a hand drill since the advent of the Bosch...am I right?

I don't know who did it, only the route...and if you go back to page one or two you can see that I did out the route allready...thanks. Anyway, it's not like I'm the one who let the cat-out-of-the-bag here, I just picked up on all this yesterday and this discussion has been going on for almost a week.

uhuh, sure...did they bother to ask the FS? and to gordons statement, and pope, I got nothing against bolts or power drills. I do have something against selfish bastards that threaten the entire climbing community and our future access by ignoring policy. I feel the same way about people carrying their shit down off El Cap or Camp Muir, same difference really, people that are to lazy to deserve the CHOP!

I totaly agree with you here pope. Once I found out (just recently) that the IB route and other route(s) in the Darrington area (both in a wilderness), were bolted with a Power drill my whole attitude towards this situation changed. I'm not necisarily against bolting with a power drill, I've never done it, but I have assisted those who have. However, when you are in Wilderness Boundries or within a National Park, the rules of the game change and need to be upheld or it affects us all. People that take Power dirlls into the Wilderness...anywhere, or up onto cliffs likee El Capitan are extremely selfish and lazy. They do not respect the manner in which generations of climbers have toiled with a hand drill because it was required by Law. I belive those people should be called out. Their mark on the wilderness should be made an example of and erased as thouroughly as possible, by the perpitrator. And they should be held accountable for what ever consequences are required by the Law. I think as a user group we need to police ourselves (because the land managers do not have resources to do that) and uphold this ethic. Otherwise access to these areas will continue to be chalanged in the future, for our children....and theirs. I think once word gets out to the masses around the country that this so-called "Worlds Longest Sport Route" was bolted in a Wilderness area with a power drill, on rappel non the less, some serious shit is going to hit the fan. It will be on the cover of all the rags for sure. Then mister environmental activist isn't going to need to search for the name "pope" in cc.com Spray to get his evidence, it will be in print, in bold letters. These guys fucked up bad, and if everything I have heard is just a rumor milll, then they need to come out and step up and defend their actions. And I know of other similar situations that have occured illegaly in the last year or so in another state that is even worse, and it pisses me of something serious, and I'm not alone on that.... My $.02

somebody did that to my "Start" button on my PC once...it sucked...thats what i get fro trying to download porn I guess...

ha cool! Hidden valley looks sweet! Did you make any turns? We were two of those gapers on the south side...although we forgot our camo...and our REI koflach Verticals...we didn't fit in at all. Hidden valley looks much prettier then Lake Helen. How long did that approach take you? Seems worth it. Also, where did you hear 70+ mile an hour winds Sat night, a guess or was that confirmed? Sure felt like it... Hotlum Bollum this weekend...

Bill, Me thinks that climbers and their bolts and trails are just the ammunition they are looking for to fight their missguided battles. Are you sure they are hippies?

maybe I'm wrong, but didn't bolt clipping become in vogue like almost 20 years ago, back with pink lycra??? the crowds of all out door enthusiest...climbers, mt bikers, skiers, motocrossers, kyakers, backpackers, hunters, fly fishermen, waterskiers, Mt Si hikers...etc, have all increased proportionaly in the last 10 or so years, for many reasons...get over it.

dude, scroll up, I did that one allready...

No, that's not at all true, none of it. All i said was that I encourage people to go climb in the mountains, not that I taught a mountaineering class. You see, unlike you I like encouraging people to take up climbing. And for the small details, we did not teach with a gri-gri, we taught folks to fall, not take, there were no certifications other than what they needed to lead in the gym, and they were specificly told that they were not being taught to climb outdoors, only in the gym. i'm sure it's still like that, but I haven't been there in two years. God you are such a fucker.

Isn't that the "Far Side" I tell ya what pope, you chop those bolts and those two wingnuts will be in the same pose up at WA Pass before you know it...they will anyway...I taught them to climb at VW and told them all about how cool the Alpine Trad climbs are...and even told them there are some Alpine bolted climbs in Wilderness Areas...some rated only 5.10b! Shit they crank 11a at the gym...they will be there soon enough, it's all inevitable. They will be secretly toting Bosches up el cap to re-bolt Charlie Porters classic lines next season...with fat 3/8" and Metolius hangers of course. 1 down, several to go... "Damn it must have been alot of work drilling all these fat bolts by hand... "

BOLT THIS:

well...the bolt/crappt rivet/ or whatever could blow, causing you to zipper the other crappy bolts below it... or your crappy rivet hanger could break... or you could fall out of your aiders while trying to top-step and break your daisy chain... Not that i have done any of those things. I don't know anything about the route, just relaying something I read to folks who know Smith...

Saw this post over on rockclimbing.com and thought some of youguys might be interested... http://rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=768143#768143

Any feed back on the new Womens version of the Nepal Top Extreme? My wife just bought a pair to be used for both volcano glacier tromping, and moderate ice climbing. In the past she has had a real hell of a time with cold feet. Pretty much a show stopper for us, and were hoping this boot will work better then the leathers she's used before. Trying to stay away from plastics...'cause she just doesn't need that much of a boot. Main concern is that they will be too stiff for walking on approaches and stuff... They fit real nice, she says, but she's still on the fence about keeping them. Anyway, just fishing for opinions...thanks.

Talk with Matt at a shop called Four Winds in Queen Anne...

great photos, thanks for sharing!

I woudn't recomend Power...i ruined a good pair of crampons with a dremel once, too easy to get carried away...

cool, so when do you graduate high school? just kidden man sounds fun. i think trying to explain why I climb is one of the hardest things to put into words. "beacause I was climbing with erik" is a good excuse to have in the bag just incase you need to get out of a sticky spot sometime...

I use a flat file. My recomendation would be to not make them too sharp. If you make them razor sharp the point gets "rolled over" very easily, the sharper they are the quicker they will become dull and the more you will need to sharpend them. And as the metal gets thinnner it is more likely to snap...and the sooner you'll need to replace them. Personaly I can't really tell the difference between super sharp pics and sorta sharp picks. Totaly dull picks with the sherp tip "rolled over" totaly suck though... I've never bothered sharpening the teeth.

Hey carolyn, good to see you around here again, it's been a while...? way to go ignoring those gapers. So many idiots bring so much ego to the crags that it's just disgusting...one of the main reasons i avoid sport crags these days, not that I don't like sport climbing, just that I don't like alot of the attitude you run into there... Anyway, warnings about deck potential are not necisarily a bad thing if done in a tactful way. If I knew about a route with a bad second clip and saw someone racking up for it who was unfamiliar with the climb, I'd probly mention something...like "Hey, carefull on that second clip..." But that's all that really needs to be said. After that the free advice is really just posturing. Once the climber is made aware of the risk they can make their own decisions... Anyway, glad you had fun!

It was totaly clear and sunny at Shasta, and the moon lit up the South Side like a spot light...but the damn wind was fierce and pretty much ruined the experience. Never had wind alone be a total showstopper...leave it to Shasta I guess.

This sounds like a thread you'd find on rockclimbing.com...

Tried to get up Shasta, got hammered by wind....