mattp

I'd gladly weigh my record for posting "morally" or "about morality" on this website against yours, Mr. Fairweather, but I really didn't intend to start down that road but only to point out that you really did outdo yourself with the obnoxious in this thread. Let's take it back a notch: I think we should probably just get on with the business of talking about politics. Do you think that liberals are more prone to cheating in elections than conservatives?

There's a route on my Valentine crag that I can't quite seem to pull off. If I carved a big heart right in the crux, a tasteful one, would it be OK?

You sure gotta wonder what is the point of having an opposition party if they won't oppose the party in power. They not only rubberstamped the Bush Admin's clear violation of the Constitution, they sent a strong message to those that helped with this that we really don't care. I'm still waiting for somebody - anybody - to make a compelling case that any of this has actually done us any good. It'd be one thing if I thought that the sacrifice of civil rights and freedom from government intrusion was actually making us safer - we could then have an argument over whether it is worth it. But here it seems a bunch of politicians just want to appear "tough on terror" without putting any real substance into such an effort and they are willing to shred the Constitution in order to do it.

Are you kidding? He is morally superior to all of us and vastly more intelligent than Mary Lou.

I once took a nap at the bottom of a crag in the Tieton and ended up getting covered with ticks. The tent might be a good idea if the little darlings or their mom doen't like creepy crawlies.

I don't know if you are for real or not. Yes, the parties suck and I am no fan of the Democratic machine. But partisanship is not going away even if Obama can voice the idea that we need to transcend some of it.

I continue to be torn. I'm supporting Obama because I find him a lot more interesting and I believe that he will probably make a better president and certainly a better figurehead. But Hilary does pretty well in debates and in actual policy discussions I like her a little better. One of the big problems I have with her, though, is her statement that "I wouldn't have voted to authorize the war powers if I knew then what I knew now." That is 100% crap. Anybody who read the newspapers at the time KNEW that Bush was lying about the threat posed by Saddam, the connection between Iraq and 911, and basically everything related to the need to invade. They also knew that most of the rest of the world was against it. Is Hilary "more electable?" I don't know. And then there's this: if we're talking purely pragmatics, I sometimes wonder if we might not be better off having a Republican president inherit the mess that Bush is leaving behind so the Democrats don't get blamed for it. Might we be well served with a weak Republican president for 4 years, and a strong Democratic majority in Congress?

WTF? KK: Hello. I AGREED with you, dude. I don't approve of the sabotage suggested by Marylou. You've argued that it is those on the Left that seek to cheat more than those on the right. I don't think you or Fairweather can claim any high ground here, that's for sure, and I CERTAINLY don't think the Republicans can claim any superiority in ths regard over the course of the last several elections -- except that they've been better cheaters. Good luck with that argument. Carry on.

Hey KK: here's your man - the chair of Washington's Republican party - on election morality: check it out

Thanks you, Kellie, not only for your hard work over the past few years but also for your participation here. At this point I think we have an opportunity to talk about how climbers of various stylistic inclinations may work together on access issues and I think that a new Oregon access fund local representative should be interested in working on issues of concern to a variety of climbers regardless of whether they see themselves in the "trad" or "sport" camp. The recent history of climbing management at Beacon is, I think, instructive. As I understand it, the 1996 climbing management plan was then and has continued to receive the support of the Access Fund. That plan called for very limited bolting at Beacon Rock and in fact any new bolts on the main face there were to be limited to carefully-considered situations, after review by the advisory committee and approval from the Park. This was based in large part on the predominant climbing tradition on the South Face and the desire of most of the “locals” involved in developing the plan. It was also recognized that the nature of the South Face really didn’t lend itself well to bolt-protected face climbs, from either a climbing quality or aesthetic standpoint. As far as I know, the advisory committee has not been maintained but the general intent of that plan has been followed. Meanwhile, Joseph's group - the Beacon Rock Climbers Association - has worked closely with the State Parks and Fish and Wildlife on the Peregrine Falcon monitoring and there has been as far as I know little active involvement on the part of the Access Fund nor any real need for such. There have been some "issues" there and many of us could grumble about who is stepping on whose toes or whether the falcons need all the space they are getting. We've seen a bit of that grumbling in this thread but, overall, it seems to me as if climbers and the Access Fund and State Parks have done well at Beacon. Here's to whoever wants to step into your shoes and bring about more of the same.

Fairweather and KK: get a grip. I more or less agree with you - as I clearly indicated in my post - that Marylou is not doing the right thing here. Do you really want to argue about who is morally superior around here? Have at it.

It is pretty funny to see Fairweather and KK express such indignation how someone would consider doing something "illegal" as if they were morally superior somehow. Haven't both suggested that we shouldn't worry about past voter suppression aimed at discouraging Democratic voters in swing states? Haven't they both complained about a legal recount according to applicable law in the last gubernatorial election? And this is just in the context of discussions about the election process. Neither one has appeared to me to be particularly "moral" in their arguments about a wide range of topics around here. Personally, I don't really think that showing up as a Republican in order to try to sabotage their campaign is all that great of an idea: I don't think "the ends justify the means," nor do I think it is likely to be effective. But the moral indignation is misguided.

The organization at our caucus was rather poor and the woman who ran our particular precinct meeting (there were several precincts in the same church) was a rather unpleasant individual. 5 Obama delegates and 3 for Clinton. It was good to see a lot our neighbors there, but I had hoped for a better opportunity for some discussion - we may as well simply have signed up to indicate our choice and left.

A lot of women worry about being outside alone. Ever notice how many women there are on the Snow Lake trail, or Mt. Pilchuck? They feel safer with the constant traffic that reminds them of walking around Greenlake.

It would be a little longer but there is a good series of runs down to Green Lakes that also make a reasonable ascent route. From the rocky crest a few hundred feet southeast of the summit area, ski a roughly 1,000' run down to the Lewis Glacier, then make a climnbing traverse left and around a corner to reach another nearlyi 800 foot run more easterly oriented on what the map shows as a perennial snowfield between 9400 and 8700, then once again traverse left and maybe climb a bit to reach a third run that will take you down to Green Lakes. At this time of the year, you are probably increasing your avvy danger by going this way; I've skied this route over Memorial Day weekend and it was great.

Coldfinger offers a reasonable perspective but, in my past experience with extended trips in the frequently wet Cascades and spring-time Sierras the ONLY way I could ever dry out wet socks or mittens or tee shirts was to take them to bed with me and place them on my chest overnight. And with a fully breathable shell fabric on my 0 to 10 degree down bag the moisture passed right through the down and never soiled the bag. Your mileage may vary.

Yes, a bivvy bag is likely to create condensation and, if you are backpacking in the Northeast, you'll likely be sleeping in shelters or huts or maybe a tent and not subject to lots of miosture from above other than frost. In these conditions an overbag is the clear choice of the two, but I bet you could do OK with nothing but a down bag. The synthetic overbag, though, will also serve as a nice summer-camping bag and you can get a slightly lighter down bag (not warm enough for real cold winter trips) that will be less to carry spring and fall. A zero or ten degree down bag is a very versatile item for general mountaineering. You could get more specialized for a trip to McKinley or summer backpacking in California but it will serve you well for most trips you are likely to make.

I have friends who swear by the use of vapor barriers, not only in their sleeping bag but in boots as well. These climbers are all using them on more extended expeditionary type climbing trips. Do you, Webster, use that Stevenson bag on "regular" trips around here? By the way, some will recognize this comment and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record but I have rarely found need for any kind of bivvy bag to keep moisture from the tent or even a snowcave out of my down. I've used snowcaves quite a bit and, yes, you have to arch the roof so it won't drip, a ground cloth is a good idea, and I avoid snuggling up against the wall, but I have not needed the additional shell. I used to camp under tarps a lot, on extended trips in the winter and spring in the Sierra and Cascades, and there too I never used a bivy shell. I learned to pay attention to drips and take advantage of opportunities to dry the bag, but my down never got diasastrously wet.

I have not checked your links but I don't think you want something called a "vapor barrier" over your down bag. It will trap moisture that will reduce your down's effectiveness. Temperatures and moisture determine what you want: if you are worried about serious moisture from outside (like rain), use a tent, tarp or a waterproof breathable bivvy bag. If you are worried about frost or dew, use a very breathable shell or overbag. If you are worried about moisture from your body, use nothing at all or an insulated overbag that absorbs moisture and keeps the dewpoint outside your down. The vapor barrier liner inside a down bag will help keep your bag drier on extended cold weather trips and allow you to carry a lighter bag than otherwise, but this system has its drawbacks like where then do you dry your wet cloting and many people complain that it is "clammy."

And what type of fork do you recommend?

The standard trailheads for the Pickets will be accessible. They are on highway 20.

Microwaving metal pans? Nope, but I think I've already posted my party trick with the light bulb on here. If not, try this: put light bulb in microwave. turn the unit on. when bulb starts flashing, turn unit off. Amaze your friends!

I can boil water on my old MSR XGK, but otherwise it is the barbeque grill for us until we decide what to do. I'm guessing that ignoring the problem and putting new fuses in the fusebox is a poor idea at this point.

Any armchair stove experts in the house? I was heating up a pan of water last night -- well actually I was browsing cc.com and thinking to myself just how worthless the discussion around here has been lately while the pan was on the stove a -- and a big pop/flash comes from the kitchen. I figured maybe a baked potato blew up in the oven, but no: there had been some kind of arcing event on the stove top and a small hole was burned through the bottom of the pan of water and into the burner element it sat on, the two were fused, the fuse blown, and water now leaking out of the pan. WTF? If we're in for a new stove, has anybody here tried one of those new induction stoves?

I just went back and tried to look this up. I found dozens of posts where you mock the imaginary "left" or argue some economic theory in an oblique response to a discussion of the war, but I could not locate a post where you actually stated what YOU think. Why did Bush pull the trigger? What has he accomplished?