mattp

Slow Children is not a chimney.

Ehmmic- Kelly indicated that she would prefer to see people such as yourself register your complaints about a trail/request for maintenance with the "authorities" than to encourage folks to take it upon themself to maintain a trail in the National Park, and I think I may agree with her. Even if they have it "classified" as a "cross-country" route, the trail up to Boston Basin must be one of the most popular trails in the North Cascades National Park (I bet it is in the top 10 because most of the popular trails are in the recreation area, not the park) and THEY should be maintaining it, not a bunch of unsupervised yahoo's with nothing better to do but slash at the trees. If we advocate doing clandestine trail maintainance we are only setting ourselves up for further conflict with the Park Service and I would expect to see more law enforcement and less access rather than a change in park policy regarding the maintenance of this trail. It is too bad you ran into a ranger with a poor attitude. Like Alex, I worked for the Service once upon a time and I remember that we got pretty smug about the dumb things that the visitors did some times. I can well imagine some young or not so young punk thinking you guys must have been idiots and being condescending about it. If this is what happened, they might have joked about it with their friends back at the ranger station but they had no right to be a jerk to you. You should have submitted appropriate comments back at the ranger station when you checked out.

dbb- That sounds like the best way down from the Blueberry Terrace: 4 raps, all with decent ledges, and all straight down, to the big sloping terrace between Rainman and Jacob's Ladder ? Yes, JL, Rainman, and Dark Rhythm all have chains at the stations, but they involve some diagonal rapelling and more of them.

What is it with Washington climbs? Many of them face east. Dreamer faces southeast, so it is a little later before the sun leaves it -- 4:00 or maybe even 5:00. That is a little late to start that climb unless you have the route fully "wired."

Darrington is at low elevation and there is almost no shade on any of the climbs, so the sun can be brutal. But the sun leaves the climbs on 3:00 rock at about 3:00 p.m.

Alex- I agree with you that it is rude and counterproductive to harass individual employees about the NPS or USFS management practices, but it IS satisfying and some times they deserve it. I haven't met a truly offensive law enforcement ranger with a bad attitude in the North Cascades, though I have dealt with ignorant people who were answering the recreation information line and knew nothing about current road/trail/snow/insect conditions and indicated that they did not feel it was their job to know such things (in such instances I have asked them "why the hell are you answering this telephone then?). I think that, when we are talking about Boston Basin, the management plan is counterproductive. I do not see the need to restrict the number of climbers who go to attempt the W. Ridge or NE Buttress Direct on Forbidden Peak, and I think that such quotas needlessly foster an ongoing conflict between climbers and the permit enforcement rangers. However, if they want to control the impact on Boston Basin (and assuming the denuded heather and other widespread human impact is the issue), there should be a hut and a small designated camping area down at or just below timberline and, at least after the snow is gone, nobody should be allowed to camp anywhere else in that basin. I believe such a restriction would do far more to contain impact than a policy of letting a certain number of campers disperse more widely, and I belive it would be more accepted by climbers because it could more easily be seen for what it would be - an attempt to contain impact. I think the "solitude" thing is pure B.S. I've been to Forest Service (yes, I know it wasn't NPS) presentations where they talk about "opportunities for solitude" (I think that is the wording from the Wilderness Act) and they say that people lose their sense of solitude if they see more than 4 other parties in a day. My response was that, even in the most popular areas, there are always opportunities for solitude -- if you are willing to head off the trail or if you are willing to attempt a climb that is not in Jim Nelson's "select" guide. You don't go to Boston Basin for solitude, but you do go there for scenery and the basin would be more secenic without campsits scattered all through it. When it comes to environmental stewardship, I believe the Park Service has a mission that includes some balance between preserving the park for future generations and fostering current recreational use. Any restrictions on backcounry users should, in my opinion, be based on "impact" not "solitude," and I think it is far more imporant what those users do and where they camp than it is how many of them go to a particular location. I think they limit the number of users, however, because it is easier than trying to control what those users do when they get there.

Hakio- Erik is right. If you found the Granite Sidewalk to be too slippery, you could have descended via the woods on either side and there would have been no need to rappel (the woods to the north are slightly more friendly and, if you take the right path, you can get all the way down without getting scratched up). Bolting the granite sidewalk would definitely fly in the face of local ethics and it would deny the adventure for those of us who like sliding down the sidewalk in the rain. Further, I am not sure that even 1/2" bolts would withstand the creeping snow/ice (we think greater forces seem to be applied by slowly creeping masses of snowand ice than actual avalanches).

I somewhat agree with Rod. Even though the tradition of not grabbing "vegetable holds" has long been around in rock climbing, it is often rather contrived to climb around a bush or tree without grabbing it, and one always wonders "what would Trask do here?" It is aid when you hang on gear, not when you grab a clump of grass or something. Having said that, I immediately think of two rather commonly pulled on bushes in Darrington that really are not, in my own contrived view, part of the route: the bush hanging down at the crux step-up move on the second of the two crux pitches on Dreamer, and the "batman bush" on Total Soul. I bet the former was NOT used on the first ascent and I also bet most people who grab that bush do so after first trying to make the move without. The move can be done without the bush, and it is probably the hardest single move of the climb but not much harder than other moves on that pitch and the pitch before. This makes it feel like a resort to "aid" when you grab the bush. As to the Batman Bush - we DID use it on the first ascent and the low hanging branch pushes you off the climb and almost forces you to grab it. I think that the climb would be better off without it but many people have told me to leave it because that move would be too hard without it (I don't think so - I believe the move is no more than 5.9, in the middle of a 5.10 pitch, without using the branch). I generally believe in pruning bushes away from climbs at Darrington because they tend to trap or drop debris and cause rock slimmage, but I said "prune" -- I am not always successful, but I try to do a clean job of it rather than leave a hacked remnant of a formerly proud plant.

I've never heard of anybody being denied a solo permit. I believe they do run accross the Super's desk, though, and that involves some degree of wait. I've gotten them twice, and I think I waited no more than a couple days either time (it was certainly no more than a week). I don't think the solo permit reserves your spot on the route, however, so you may still find yourself playing hide and seek from the rangers if you are determined to run up there on a Saturday on short notice in a good-weather period in the middle of the climbing season... but, in my opinion, the solo permission is really not much of a problem in-and-of-itself. Have fun.

Why not get the permit?

The Forest Service got a lot of letters on the topic, and they never gated or installed water bars on the road, as they had proposed to do. It has deteriorated slightly and is rockier but is pretty much just as driveable as it was 4 years ago.

The Petzold is great, and it leads directly to the Upper Exum. Go for it, Rodchester.

Phil- You said you're going to the Cascades, but intend to "hit up" Squamish. If you're looking for some quick-hit peaks for a taste of the North Cascades, look at Mount Baker and Mount Shuksan for two easy-access peaks not far off the road to Squamish. Both have a variety of routes, and both can be climbed from the Mount Baker Highway out of Bellingham. For Baker, look at the Coleman/Demming route (easier), or the North Ridge (a scenic moderate with one or two short pitches of easy ice climbing). Despite reports to the contrary, both routes will "go" throughout the entire season. For Shuksan, look at the Fischer Chimneys (relatively easy but more complex than either of those routes on Baker), or the North Face (a moderate snow climb that will offer real ice climbing only in the late season, and the only one I mention here that will actually include a little N. Cascades bushwack). For alpine rock, take the Beckey book and head to Washington Pass. In that same area, you might also climb Silver Star Mountain via Burgundy Col/Silver Star Glacier for a glaciated peak climb if the weather is questionable enough that Baker and Shuksan look no good but not bad enough to abandon mountain climbing hopes altogether. If you are over there and the weather craps out totally, you could probably still find some doable sport climbs down in the Methow Valley nearby (one pitch or six - eight pitch climbs on a larger wall) Skip Mount Rainier unless that is the beacon that calls you from afar. I don't mean to suggest that it isn't very cool -- I have climbed and very much enjoyed six different routes on it -- but I think Shuksan or Baker offer more bang for the buck if you are looking for a "taste of the NW." Stop at the Mountain Equipment Coop on your way through Vancouver. If you want to take a scenic hike on one of the days you are up in BC, you might consider driving an hour and a half further up the road, and going to Joffre Lakes Provincial Park for a stroll up to Upper Joffre Lake. It is a short and crowded hike, but it is pretty cool. There are hot springs in the area if you like that kind of thing, but those that are easy to get to can be either a mess, crowded, or both. Consider a sidetrip out to the W. Coast of Vancouver Island. It is worth it. -Matt

Sorry Kiwi, but I too give it a I don't know what you ate, but my burger was as good as most any bar food except some of those fern places that have been soundly rejected by this crew. Yes, the guy was a little overwhelmed and at times he could not be flagged down very easily. But I only had to wait ten minutes for my food, and that was no worse than what I remember from, say, the Ballroom or Owl and Thistle -- and the guy was friendly about it. Virtually no smoke problem either.

Don't sweat it, marylou. Like I said, they have the back room or whatever it is reserved for us. We won't be right there next to the big screen TV with all the smokers. Please do your part and leave your smokes at home, and everything will be just fine.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the creek crossing is much of a problem this time of year. And this year, its probably less of an issue than normal.

I called the Kort Haus and they said they'd reserve the back area for us (whatever that is). I said we'd show up at 7:00 or perhaps 8:00. Anybody tried their alligator burger?

This may be out of date:

Right on. Where are the pictures??? Bring them to pubclub.

Fred is his own guy. I don't think he's interested this week and, besides, the Kort Haus is too lame for him and too far of a drive and it blows goats and its his turn to have pubclub in the Adamants.

You're more wacko than I thought!!! I'm glad you obey the laws, though. See you there .. at the KortHaus-I mean Alki-no I mean the KortHaus!

I agree, but it is comforting to get to know an area, and the guidebook, so you can dial in the climbing and interpret the book. That is why you can climb circles around lots of people at Index, Erik, but you'd probably have to go back to remedial climbing school if you hopped off the plane in NYC and hopped a cab for the Gunks (though your advice would apply very well there, because there are FANTASTIC climbs at every grade from 5.3 to 5.13).

I should add a footnote to Rod's comment about Jacob's Ladder: it is a "slab" climb as compared to World Wall I or something, but don't expect it to be like the climbs at Static Point. Five pitches of Jacob's ladder are over 60 degrees and you will probably want some edging shoes... web page

That's been tried before, Greg. After two days of arguing about how much smoke here or bad parking there or who's turn it is, and maybe an angry exchange of hostile pm's, I've been asked to call it. Why don't you?

Fox and Greg what are you arguing about? "I'm an idiot, no you are ... " Alex's list of "long moderates" is as good as anybody else's tick list, and as far as his description of Silent Running, I agree with him -- except that he fails to make any mention of the fact that there are a couple of 50 foot runouts (albeit, on easier terrain so I wouldn't say he is completely inaccurate to state that the route is well-protected). Greg is right, however, that Fox is not doing Dryad a favor where he looks at the Smoot guide and points out that "there is a two pitch 5.8 on the Comb." (I am only guessing that is what he did.) The good climbs on The Comb are all or pretty much all in the 5.10-5.11 range (there may be a good .12, too). The other "moderate" Fox mentions, Dreamer, is only 5.9 and it is very well-protected. But it also has a moderately taxing approach, it is moderately long, moderately complex, and the descent can be a moderate pain-in-the-ass. For comparison, it is a more demanding outing than Outer Space, which most moderate climbers think is NOT moderate.