mattp

I had the guys at REI stone grind a pair of skis and they returned them with a note attached saying that I had ruined them by drilling holes in the tip and tail, and they were NOT RESPONSIBLE for any resulting damage. When I picked them up, I told the guy to go look on their shelf - and he'd find out that mountaineering skis come that way (these were factory-drilled holes they were referring to). As in Mr. Ed's case, they did an OK job on the stone grinding, though.

I'd be sorry to see you go, Fairweather.

I'm equally serious, Crackbolter. While I share your appreciation for action over words, and there are certainly plenty of undeserving bolts out there, I do not think it is a good idea to advocate that people go out and start chopping bolts. I recognize you are advocating for "responsible" and "judicious" bolt-pulling but this activity can get out of hand just as can bolting and we do not need bolt wars in Icicle Creek. Also, it can be quite hard to get the little bastards to come out cleanly and I'd rather see a route left alone then have somebody make a mess of it. Lastly, I think it is highly dubious for someone to appoint themself a rock cop and I hope that anybody who sets out to "fix" what they perceive as a "problem" has a cool head and the ability to adequately assess whether their imposition of their standard on the rest of us is any less egocentric than the actions of the "offender" who placed too many or inartful bolts in the first place.

I agree that Kurt's criticism was "rather mild," Catbird, and it may also have been "heartfelt" (to borrow a term from our good friend, Pope). However, I was sorry to see salt rubbed into an old wound and in that respect I may understand part of where Crackbolter's coming from. I think it a poor idea to urge people to go out and start pulling bolts, though -- for many reasons. That's a whole different discussion, though, so lets' not get into it in this thread.

Its a mess, allright, and I don't like guns (run a search in the Spray section and you'll see), but I don't really mind if folks go out and shoot bottles or a wrecked car left in an old clearcut. Rather than close the roadside to shooting, I'd rather see them put up a big sign that says: "shoot here" - with maybe a parking lot and privvy next to it (privvy's make a great object for target practice). My basic assumption is that if you close that road to shooting, they'll just find another one. I also believe they are not really hurting anything. I just wish they'd clean up after themselves a little more.

Faireweather's right. The gub'mint is hiding cameras in the woods just to spy on innocent cit'zens like you an' I. S'time to arm bears.

Last year I stated that I thought there was significant potential for us to get in conflict with the ski area when climbing at Chairlift Falls, and my suggestion that we should keep a low profile when climbing there was taken by some as criticism. However, in light of the recent "issue" over the alpental back country route (both the reason for and the eventual outcome of which are not entirely clear as far as I know), might a suggestion that folks "tread lightly" be advised? Do you have any suggestions about this? Is Monday a day that the ski area will be closed?

I just did.

Shut up, Pope. If you want to discuss this topic, fine. But please do not, once again, seek to disrupt the discussion with your barbs. Is DICK obnoxious? Yes, but he makes a point that is directly on topic here. Your last post does not.

It all comes down to what you want from the site. DICK is absolutely right: talk s*$t about route setters, and most of them are going to do whatever they can to avoid having information about their routes posted on the site. Nobody in this discussion has credibly refuted that simple fact. I have had numerous new route setters tell me that they do not want their routes discussed on this site because they believe folks here will talk shit about them and maybe even try to cause trouble with the rangers or go out and start chopping bolts. They are right: with notable exceptions, this site's discussion of new crag developments or routes has been mostly extremely negative or even hostile -- while I bet most climbers enjoy and recognize some value even in the worst of these overbolted "atrocities." Will some of these climbers keep their routes secret anyway? Yes, for some of the reasons Alex listed. But some would not if the atmosphere on this site were different. The guys who've done the shit talking, and to some extent we moderators who allowed it, have made a decision whether we want to acknowledge it or not. We've decided that talking shit is more important than getting beta from people putting up new routes. To some, that is a good thing; to others, not.

No, we did not. And we wasted some time as a result. Onmce you get started, you will probably do OK without a topo up to the top of pith 12, a full-length pitch with perhaps 4-6 bolts in it. However, from here you mave to move right to a bush (120 feet, no bolts), and then start upward again. A topo would help, but is probably not needed if you have this beta. Copy your friend's copy of R&I and you will do fine.

Just be careful with a totally wet sleeping bag, though. I've ripped the baffles by washing a sleeping bag and then tossing it into the drier with a tennis shoe. (The tennis ball might be a better call, you might not want to use maximum high heat, either.)

Is the beer really cheap? Last time I was there it seemed like the beer was the only thing that cost the same as it does here at home. (That half-strength, extra-sweet Mekong whiskey was cheap, though.)

I have never used a bivvy bag inside a snow cave and I'm not used to having my sleeping bag get all wet that way. I'm guessing you were camped at low elevation where the snopack was unfrozen and water may even have been percolating through the snow so the whole place was 110% moisture? (That wouldn't have had to have been all that low this weekend, I suppose). It'll dry OK if you dry it by any method and then give it a good shake, though. Just don't leave it clumped up or in a pile in the corner or something.

A 110 foot tall fir is no joke. I've recently taken a bunch of small trees out of my backyard and I had a couple of them do thing's I didn't expect when they came down. I think the Daily Zip said that one of the "crew" WAS a man who works in the "tree cutting business" and even he apparently was taken by surprise. This just shows how maybe when I'm going to work my way up to something bigger I better hire Mr. K instead of taking a chance by doing it myself.

I'm not quite sure who "wants it both ways," but I DO think that overly focussing on route gradation has its downfalls - among them the fact that people who feel they need to climb the high numbers in order to think they accomplished anything on a given outing may overlook outstanding routes that are a few notches below their given grade. In addition, too much focus on grading can be limiting in the sense that we expect to fail on a climb rated even slightly over what we perceive to be our "limit" and this can be a bar to technical progress or the enjoyment of routes that are in fact within our grasp. I am sure there are some climbers who could climb "light on the path" if they were told it was 5.9, but will fail on it if it is called 5.10.

Daily Olympian web page

I'm with Scott here. I've never felt the need, while travelling abroad, to pretend I'm not an American. I've had plenty of experiences with people telling me how much they dislike what America stands for, but almost never have I had anyone mistreat me because I am American. Furthermore, unless you are a complete asshole, it is good for America if we travel and meet people around the world and have them see that we Americans are just people too -- isn't it?

I've been up there in the middle of the winter twice. The first time, we found steep snow to within 100 - 150 feet of the summit ridge, just SW of the summit, and we climbed both up and down with no real difficulty; two tools came in handy for the final bit but probably would not have been necessary. The second time, it was sunny and stuff was falling down all over the place so we strapped on our skis and left. On that occasion, the snow didn't pile so high and it would have been at least a couple of pitches of rime-ice coated rocks to reach the summit.

What's wrong with Andy's?

The climb is on the West Peak, not the Main Peak, so I think the hike starts over a mile before where Mr. Klenke has indicated - basically right at the lower left-hand corner of the "scale" that he imprinted on top of the map.

In the past, Bridwell has been featured in a profile-type article in the major climbing magazines quite a bit, and I would guess more than Donini. However, I've pretty much stopped reading them, so I don't know about the last few years.

Airport security is mostly a big scam intended to convince Americans that our government is doing something to protect us. Before boarding flights, we had to go through metal detectors before 9-11, so what is the big difference if they move them so that you can't accompany your wife or children partway down the concourse? After one oddball tried to blow up his shoes, you can't get on an airplane without taking your shoes off. They screen your carry on (they used to only screen some of them), and they detained my six year old nephew and scared the heck out of him when they searched his pack full of coloring books and juice while getting ready to board a recent flight, but nobody looked in my carry-on and I had a camera and other items that could easily have been full or c-4 or which might have included parts that break down into a knife or something. Out on the drive in front of the airport, you can't stop outside the baggage claim to wait for somebody -- what's the point of that if somebody with a truck bomb could just park and walk away from it (they could surely push the remote trigger before the bomb squad was called to haul it off), or if they are willing to blow themselves up? And then, during the recent orange alert, they made you drive past a little guard house on the entrance drive, backing up traffic all the way to the Burien freeway, so somebody could look into your car to see if you were "suspicious?" What the hell did THAT accomplish? Yes, I'm sure they have tightened up some aspects of airport security but most of this is just a show. We're paying a lot of money toward Mr. Bush's reelection campaign.

I find some of the Balance Bars slightly more moist or easier to "choke down" than those you listed -- but only slightly.