Dru

Technically - if you aren't redpointing but just working the route, then who cares. But if you are going for the redpoint/pinkpoint, to grab the draws or final chains invalidates the ascent. So it's good practice not to.

exactly. aside from the hyberbole about slope angle the pictures are nice though

"it ain't what you do it's the way that you do it" (.)(.)

grabbing a draw to clip is aid

but that was so last year

falsies? (o)(o)

I do not see any 55 to 60 degree terrain Even the North Face is only 55 degrees right at the very top

http://www.ediblegear.com/

OMFG

where are the s in the trees going?

You can sleep on my couch if you promise to do the dishes

Yeah, everyone knows that people who drive gas-guzzlers should only vote for BUSH!

Exactly. "If there was a Law saying you had to jump out of a plane without a parachute, would you do it"?

Dude everyone's socratic these days.

My point is that the "wilderness" we are referring to is not what I would call a wilderness. It is an area that has been legally designated as "wilderness" in an attempt to provide something which is not actually found in the Lower 48 except in as few small areas. The issue here is whether the legal designation of a specific area as non-motorized is legitimate or not, and how you interpret that designation with respect to ratting out a driller. Broadly, the four possible opinions here are: I agree with the wilderness designation, and therefore would rat out the driller ...(for violating a law I agree with.) I agree with the wilderness designation, but I would not rat out the driller (...because I think that climbers should settle this matter themselves without bringing in the Tool) I disagree with the wilderness designation, and would not rat out the driller. (drilling, snowmobiling, dirtbikes, it's all good!) I disagree with the wilderness designation, but would rat out the driller. (Although I don't agree with the law it should be respected? Or another reason) See there are 4 options but Lammy only provided 2. So some of the people that appear to be voting the same way in Lammy's poll actually disagree with each other. I think that's where some of the confusion in this comes from.

Well, except for the 5% urbanized thing. i can buy that. By the same statistic though, only 1% of Japan is urbanized. Go figure.

Is this board representative of the US population? seems to me that the one with religious beliefs that cannot be scientifically proven is Chricton. About what I'd expect from a writer of cheap pulps.

"In a real wilderness you can drill and climb however you like because no one is there to care. Antarctica, the Karakoram, Baffin - walls have bolts." - Warren Hollinger

Why are motors banned in wilderness anyways? The underlying reasons can be found in this here Ed Abbey quote:

It could be worse: Real live tales of cougar attacks!

In deciding whether or not to obey any law, really, though, one has to examine the reason for its enactment and then determine whether or not one supports that rationale. This is done on a case by case basis not once for all laws. That's why as Iambone states one can support smoking weed but not murder. Similarly one can argue for or against power drilling in wilderness and the proper response without one's position on that issue affecting one's stand on extended stays in Camp 4. So in this case: the law or statute in contravention is the one related to motors in legislated "wilderness". Do you agree or disagree with the reasons for this law? If you agree, do you think calling the Tool in was the most justified action? If you disagree with banning motors in wilderness, do you support the powerdriller as a bold hero? Etc.

I don't think I have ever made an unplanned bivy. There is enough suffering on planned bivies. Certainly on some of those 21, 23 hour type days the urge to stop and curl up has been intense but there was always some factor (like a bottle of Scotch back at camp or an aggro partner who didn't want to spoon) that kept me moving. I did spend 3 days in the summer of 1990 sitting on a ledge with no bivy gear and no food but it was done in a spirit of research

Holy Fuck! Nice pussy pete!

I think he's saying he posted as "Alan".

Hey Potty-Mouth. Do you work for RMI? Do you speak to the clients that way? Do you also regularly make disparaging comments about "independent climbers" as many RMI guides do? And more importantly, do you exaggerate Lou's bigness at every opportunity?