TimL

Its so funny how all of these small obscure, forgotten about lines are stirring such a huge controversy. But its not actually about the climbs, after thinking about the issue it comes deals with a much larger issue. In regard to several folks in the climbing community using chest beating tactics to advance their views, they are only taking away from PNW climbing and doing no good for the climbing community. The scare tactics used by the above folks and radical standpoint in the issue is no way to further a constructive solution. In the same realm, a "you suck" attitude achieves nothing as well. These scare tactics need to stop for the sake of the climbing community, land owners and everyone else involved. A small extreme minority with a certain radical view point may eventually hurt the majority if this continues. The larger issue in which I was thinking about yesterday involves 2 parts: 1.) The growing pains on the PNW climbing community and 2.) balancing the history of ethics in the LW area. Granted with increased use of the area, ethics are going to change. I do think the change should reflect and respect the history of the area. I understand there will be pockets of extreme groups on either side of the issue, but nothing productive or positive will happen unless a desired balance is attained. Since climbers pride themselves in a general lack of higher organization or authority, several scenarios could happen. In the long run the problem will handle itself for the better or worse by the groups involved. In a turn for the worse, land owners could get pissed and close climbing areas. I would hope through web or personal discourse the problem could be handled on its own. I have never been an advocate of mass bolting. I wasn't happy to see DDD bolted but neither was I happy to see it chopped. I was not happy to see the Dogleg variation bolted. In regard to the Dogleg variation, I tried to lead it on gear. I found out it is doable but rather ran out. I ended up clipping 1 bolt at the crux. Obviously in my mind, except for a few hardmen, the bolted variation would be hard to naturally protect and for the average climber would be undesirable/dangerious to lead without a certain number of bolts. I think a good balance in terms of the Dogleg variation would be at the time of its conception to bolt around the places were gear is available and leave naturally protected areas bolt free. Granted , I would not of liked to of seen the climb bolted, now that its done the damaged needs to be minimized. I don't think it needs all the bolts and believe it would be a fun mixed climb. I'm sure I'll see plenty of you guys out there climbing. Maybe then we can kick around the issue. My 2 cents have been thrown into the mix. As for now, this topic is draining and I'd rather concentrate on actual climbing.

Great another topic on bolting. Thanks for adding fuel to the fire Pope. Pope and Mitch - you guys suck. Maybe Retro, Pope and Bill Robbins can get together and have a crow bar 3 way. Retro - Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've sunk several bolts into Leavenworth rock. JY crag ring a bell? Retro - Who the fuck made YOU the moral conscience of Leavenworth climbing? From your spray, its seems like you've done more to take away from Leavenworth climbing then top add to it. I see nothing positive about your statements. I've never been an advocate of bolting natural lines. With all this talk of "restoration" I see a witch hunt attitude being taken that can only be a hindrance.

[ 04-17-2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: TimL ]

[ 04-17-2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: TimL ]

Maybe if I bolt Icicle Road at -5.15 Retro & Pope could get their love bars out and have at it. Bolt the Planet!!!!!!!!!!!!

The best route in the vicinity of Peshastin is driving right by it en route to the higher quality shit rock at Vantage.

Best slab pitch I've climbed is Off Duty on Duty Dome in Leavenworth. Really, really good. Spray away.

Great weekend at Leavenworth with a little bit of swimming up routes which to be expected in the spring. Sent Pumpline at Careno Crag. Awesome climb! Since I neither consider myself as a hardcore gear or sport climber, I have a question for everyone. What would you consider slab climbing since it mostly involves bolts and run outs unlike that of a typically bolted sport climb or a gear protected crack? I never see very many people line up for or bitch about a good ole Leavenworth slab climb. Also, I never hear anyone ever boasting about slab climbing or exchanging move by move descriptions. Never seen any boy scout, youth challange, drum beat'n, multiple route hoggin, rock chucking, pre-pubesent congregation at the base. Maybe slab climbing is to weird. Spray away!

It sounds like you plan to do several grade 5 wall routes? If you want to ever do grade 6 wall I would buy the big one.

Who cares what variation whoever did whenever? I don't. A climb is a climb. Motivation is personal. Routes are conditional. All I say is thanks for reporting conditions Michael and good job on your climb.

oops [ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: TimL ]

Good Job!

Focus on your next climbing adventure. After not working and climbing full time for 10 1/2 months, going to work not only was interesting but freaky as well. Thank God for a website thats you can waste plenty of time on!

My 2 cents.... I've found you can't really go wrong with Metolius, BD cams #.5 through #5 and Aliens to the Red. I've had problems with the micro BD cams. They seem to walk and fix themselves very easily. HB and Trango cams seem to walk and fix themselves easy too. With Metolius they fit an extra 2 1/2 inch piece in between the 2 inch (blue) and 3 inch (Burgandy) pieces. Don't know much about the DMM cams. For an Icicle rack I would have a set of nuts, set of TCU's (blue, yellow, orange) or Aliens (?blue, yellow, green) and cams either Met or BD .5 through 3. You could use a 3 1/2 or 4 inch piece here and there but nothing mandatory. Maybe double up on 1 & 2 inch pieces. I don't thing there is a need for a grey 00 Met cam. A purple 0 Met cam is nice here and there but still not needed. Thats my opinion. I also hate hexes which is my bias. Hope this helps.

The Mole through the wrong Toketie Creek Drainage.

I thought JB's slideshow was good. He didn't seem like a grand story teller but his pictures and descriptions of the route were great. Just being able to see the legend in person was entertaining.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Dru: jerome likes to lean on his cheater stick while wearing spandex and talking to his stock broker on a cell phone about Britney Spears Guess its better than you sitting on your ice tool in Lilloeet spraying about all the climbs you've done. I'd rather be a sporto at Smith.

I'll be there even though I have a final exam tommorow. Anybody know what time?

If you like Pumpline, you should give Air Roof down the road a go. He,He,He

My vote is for the 5.10b Split Pillar pitch at Squamish or GM p2 linked with Heart of the Country p3 at Index.

With the cold weather and all the snow, anybody know if the Banks Lake ice has formed? Thanks for any and all beta.

Thanks Mitch. I was just wondering if any ice is formed at Banks? Do you know if much is formed at Lworth? Tim

Good topic. I would have to say as exciting as Canary is both pitches are Leavenworth 5.8. Although I pity the fool who blows the first moves and ends up below the roof on the 2ndpitch. It seems to me the topic revolves around grade inflation/ego gratification of climbing routes. For instance, if Angel Crack was rated 5.9 by the hard men that put it up, then it should stay 5.9. Same with Outer Space and Damnation Crack. I think they should stay at their original ratings. [ 03-05-2002: Message edited by: TimL ]

I just started a new job a couple of weeks ago and forgot to talk about the time off issue during the interview. Knowing that I couldn't wait very long to voice time off intentions, I marched into the boss and asked him if 2-3 weeks was OK? First questions out of his mouth: "Is this for climbing" Me: "yes" Boss: "Where?" Me: "Alaska or Yosemite" Boss: "What are you going to climb" Me: "Something in the Ruth or something on El Cap" Boss: "Just 2 weeks" Me: "2 maybe 3" Boss: "Shouldn't be problem. Let me know the dates." All I got to say is thank god my boss is cool and has been climbing for the past 20 years. Now the only thing I need to know is how to talk my teachers into letting me take my spring finals early. When I figure that out I'll start a new thread.

Rodeo, I was kinda in your situation about a year ago and I took 10 1/2 moths off work and did the climbing bum thing. I would consider it as one of the better times of my life. The experiences and people I got to meet were awesome. Now starting week 2 of life in cubeville and going back to school I look back at what I have learned about life and smile. Its time to make some cash and gain knowledge but soon I'll be on the road again. Go and have fun. Life is to short!