knotzen Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I'm reading a book, "Fatal Mountaineer," about Willi Unsoeld, and the author, a non-climber journalist, keeps referring to the "uselessness" of climbing and mountaineering. On one hand, I can agree that climbing is useless to general society--it doesn't solve any of the world's problems. OTOH, climbing does a lot for/to the individual climbing--obviously. It tones your body and mind in a way possibly particular to climbing. Climbing isn't any more useless than the Tour de France or any other sport, really. Also, stories about climbing also are inspirational to armchair climbers, so you could say climbing contributes culturally, as do other sports. If I didn't climb, I doubt I'd be pursuing a Ph.D in cellular biology and finding a cure for cancer. It's not distracting me from higher pursuits. This also brings to mind my grandfather's question, when I told him I was going climbing: "What do you do when you get to the top, just come down?" He doesn't get that the going up is what it's all about. Thoughts? (Notice this is not in the Spray forum, eh.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Climbing is an elitist activity reserved for those lucky few on the planet who have extra time and energy on their hands and have to burn it off. Most people in the world have a hard enough time surviving day to day. The disparity is remarkable. How's that for cynicism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iapetus999 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I think doing things that are "hard" and challenging prepares you for life's challenges. Everyone will have to cope with life-altering experiences and having a foundation of strong will and sacrifice may prepare you for those days. I also don't think life is worth living if you don't enter risky situations. A comfortable life is useless. No one ever wrote a story about a person who lived a comfortable life and never dealt with anything. Someone who risked everything to achieve a dream..and maybe suffered some failures along the way...now that's a story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Climbing has changed my stress threshold. Nothing short of life-threatening situations creates stress for me. What? I missed the meeting. too bad. The stresses of the non-climbing portion of my life are so much less significant after spending the weekend thrutching up a tough route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iapetus999 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Climbing is an elitist activity reserved for those lucky few on the planet who have extra time and energy on their hands and have to burn it off. Most people in the world have a hard enough time surviving day to day. The disparity is remarkable. How's that for cynicism? I think that's more true of skiing where you require gear and lift tickets but people have been climbing the mountains around here for 1000's of years before there was any gear invented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 thousands of years? sorry, any activity requiring driving a great distance, buying a ton of crap, and purposefully putting oneself in ugly situations just to get a thrill, that is an activity reserved for the elite, who have time, money, and extra energy on their hands. dirtbag climbers are hardly in a position where they are about to die of starvation, and most weekend warriors are just looking to find an outlet from a life that is too dull and too easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thread drift... But the book "Ascent" (biography of Willi Unsoeld) was fantastic! And yes climbing is pointless. So is jet skiing, pet ownership (dog, nodders, gimps etc), recreational sex, taking a shower every day, wearing ties to work, posting on cc.com, all thing on TV and the radio, the chimperor........ So it's not really any more pointless than most other things in life besides having kids, and providing food and shelter for them. Were just lucky that we have to spend less time on the necessities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotzen Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Climbing is an elitist activity reserved for those lucky few on the planet who have extra time and energy on their hands and have to burn it off. Most people in the world have a hard enough time surviving day to day. The disparity is remarkable. But that's true of many, many things in Western society. Just about everything we do or buy is fluff compared to the struggle to survive that millions face every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotzen Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thread drift... But the book "Ascent" (biography of Willi Unsoeld) was fantastic! And yes climbing is pointless. So is jet skiing, pet ownership (dog, nodders, gimps etc), recreational sex, taking a shower every day, wearing ties to work, posting on cc.com, all thing on TV and the radio, the chimperor........ So it's not really any more pointless than most other things in life besides having kids, and providing food and shelter for them. Were just lucky that we have to spend less time on the necessities. Yeah, what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 thousands of years? sorry, any activity requiring driving a great distance, buying a ton of crap, and purposefully putting oneself in ugly situations just to get a thrill, that is an activity reserved for the elite, who have time, money, and extra energy on their hands. dirtbag climbers are hardly in a position where they are about to die of starvation, and most weekend warriors are just looking to find an outlet from a life that is too dull and too easy. Wasn't it the Mayans who used to play some game with rubber balls and hoops, where they sacrificed the losers? Hell, chimps masterbate and throw feces. Pointlessness has always been around and always will be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Climbing is a SELFISH WASTE OF TIME and HUMAN ENERGY. I mean come-on, there is almost always an "easier" way up the stupid rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli11 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 and the author, a non-climber journalist, keeps referring to the "uselessness" of climbing and mountaineering. maybe this is the source......useless to man......priceless for the self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Climbing is a SELFISH WASTE OF TIME and HUMAN ENERGY. I mean come-on, there is almost always an "easier" way up the stupid rock. In that case i'll give you a good price for all your gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotzen Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 priceless for the self Right. And therefore, it's *not* useless. The book, by the way, ain't that great. It got poor ratings/reviews on amazon.com. I just got a free copy, so thought I'd read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 eh, short version: for selfish me: it keeps me from throwing kittens off cliffs. big picture: it inspires rabid protectors of wilderness and wildlife. we put our money and time into it's protection. not so useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotzen Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Let's take it a bit deeper, and examine the uselessness of this thread. Truly, the zenith of uselessness, which happens to lie at the same point as the nadir of usefulness. A stunning, juxtapositive superimposition of opposite sameness, ultimately summing to an earth-shaking nil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Fascinating analysis. I am going to call it post-awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotzen Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 the uselessness of this thread. Aha, I was waiting for someone to say that. And to that, I have prepared this pithy response: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iapetus999 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) thousands of years? sorry, any activity requiring driving a great distance, buying a ton of crap, and purposefully putting oneself in ugly situations just to get a thrill, that is an activity reserved for the elite, who have time, money, and extra energy on their hands. dirtbag climbers are hardly in a position where they are about to die of starvation, and most weekend warriors are just looking to find an outlet from a life that is too dull and too easy. Spending time posting on the Internet is pretty elitist. I was thinking about this over lunch. If I spend my time doing something that improves my life, doesn't that mean I've improved someone's life (even if that's my own) and by doing so I've improved life on Earth in general? I'm hoping my climbing Rainier besides the obvious benefit to myself (hours and hours of life-enhancing training) that my kids will be inspired by it? So I've enhanced the lives of my whole family. And my dad who's in a rest home is totally into my venture too...his life is improved by my actions as well. He's completely bedridden and has never climbed a mountain..but he can live vicariously through me. So frankly maybe I started this whole thing just as my own little selfish adventure but now I'm seeing how it's affecting all the lives around me. I don't see it as useless at all....maybe it's the most useful thing I've done in my life. Edited August 9, 2005 by Iapetus999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 how deep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 climbing is all about keeping the kids off the streets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitergal Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 right..because if we didn't climb we'd be doing drugs, breaking into stores, and killing things...right?? isn't that what that article said.....man..where is that link?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I wonder why discussing a journalist's book would cause us to attempy justifying our climbing addictions? What about the uselessness of his writing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iapetus999 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Now if you want to talk uselessness my activity for tonight probably qualifies: going to see the useless Mariners try to actually win a game. I have no moral justification for going except that I already bought the tickets. Then again there is those $8 beers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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