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#1139259 - 05/25/15 12:06 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: derekpearson]
Buckaroo Offline
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Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 1597
TRs: 11 Photos: 349
Loc: forced bivy
Originally Posted By: derekpearson

No, you won't be mugged or your tires slashed.
So i know the perfect pitch to test your suggestion of climbing to keep a pitch clean. Its the left side of narrow arrow 5.7 lost and forgotten. But i will trim branches(this summer) and dig the pitch out(this winter) to it's natural state before the tree grew(safe to say it wasn't a hindrance during fa). It will provide shade. It will mostly be climbed from quarry crack p1 traverse p2 left side p3 . I think this link up should be called The Tree Project .


What about the 1st pitch of Narrow Arrow Standard(5.7)? Can the loose blocks be cleaned like they were on Tatoosh? What pitch is dirty, the one to the top of Narrow Arrow tower or to the top of the wall?

My normal days off are two days mid week. I have some tools including a pole saw. And was thinking about building a better muffler for a gas powered blower.

Where does the walk up to the top of the wall start?

I can contribute toward anchors also.

This could probably be pieced together for less than what they are charging.

STAINLESS ANCHOR

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#1139262 - 05/25/15 04:23 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
glassgowkiss Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 3961
TRs: 3 Photos: 81
Loc: in the gutter
What trees can do do a cliff can be observed on the top and bottom of Zodiac Wall in Squamish or in Country sector at Index. Lucky us nobody was killed, but trees growing on these cliffs are becoming quickly a real safety issue.
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#1139266 - 05/25/15 06:19 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
derekpearson Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 14
TRs: 1 Photos: 2
........


Edited by derekpearson (05/26/15 08:27 PM)

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#1139267 - 05/25/15 06:24 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
derekpearson Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 14
TRs: 1 Photos: 2
.......


Edited by derekpearson (05/26/15 08:29 PM)

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#1139272 - 05/26/15 12:08 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
Buckaroo Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 1597
TRs: 11 Photos: 349
Loc: forced bivy
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
What trees can do do a cliff can be observed on the top and bottom of Zodiac Wall in Squamish or in Country sector at Index. Lucky us nobody was killed, but trees growing on these cliffs are becoming quickly a real safety issue.


I can agree that trees can be a safety issue. I remember the one on the ledge at the top of GM 1st pitch. Thought it was solid and it came completely off. There's also some scary ones at the top of the rotten section of the quarry.
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#1139273 - 05/26/15 12:10 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: derekpearson]
Buckaroo Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 1597
TRs: 11 Photos: 349
Loc: forced bivy
Originally Posted By: derekpearson
Where does the walk up to the top of the wall start?

I can contribute toward anchors also.

This could probably be pieced together for less than what they are charging.

STAINLESS ANCHOR





I like this. [/quote]

They sell just the beaner, and the SS screw link is $3. Would want to take a closer look at that hanger or just use a Petzl.

Was thinking more about bothering other climbers or park tourists with the noise of a blower, but you're right about the train.
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#1139274 - 05/26/15 07:27 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
glassgowkiss Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 3961
TRs: 3 Photos: 81
Loc: in the gutter
Originally Posted By: Buckaroo
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
What trees can do do a cliff can be observed on the top and bottom of Zodiac Wall in Squamish or in Country sector at Index. Lucky us nobody was killed, but trees growing on these cliffs are becoming quickly a real safety issue.


I can agree that trees can be a safety issue. I remember the one on the ledge at the top of GM 1st pitch. Thought it was solid and it came completely off. There's also some scary ones at the top of the rotten section of the quarry.


Huge rockfall that landed right near Zoom and next to the road was caused by toppling tree. Zodiac Wall rockfall was registered by seismograph in Vancouver. Over 1000 cubic meters fell off- both events caused by trees and basically roots dislodging huge chunks of rock. Contrary to popular beliefs forestation of these cliffs is rather new event. I do not know if there are any pictures showing Index town walls from way back, but in Squamish you can clearly see these cliffs were free of trees and shrubbery in early 20th century. I think some sort of tree management in these areas is not only good, but maybe necessary course of action to preserve both cliffs themselves and ensure some sort of safety for the future.
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#1139276 - 05/26/15 07:43 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
num1mc Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 709
TRs: 0 Photos: 45
The rock falls you point out could have been caused by the roots of sword ferns, last winters ice, time or dumb luck.

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#1139281 - 05/26/15 10:10 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
Buckaroo Offline
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Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 1597
TRs: 11 Photos: 349
Loc: forced bivy
So maybe I/we should assess the trees on the LTW so we can get a consensus. I would think also that roots could hold things together in some cases. Where if they are dead then things are going to fall apart.

Does anyone know where the trail starts to go to the top of the LTW?
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#1139284 - 05/26/15 10:41 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
kerwinl Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 81
TRs: 2 Photos: 26
Originally Posted By: Buckaroo
So maybe I/we should assess the trees on the LTW so we can get a consensus. I would think also that roots could hold things together in some cases. Where if they are dead then things are going to fall apart.

Does anyone know where the trail starts to go to the top of the LTW?
There is no standard approach to get to the top of the LTW. If you do decide to come in from above use caution as there are loose rocks, vegetation etc, that can be easily kicked down onto unsuspecting climbers on the LTW.


Edited by kerwinl (05/26/15 12:55 PM)

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#1139295 - 05/26/15 01:15 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: num1mc]
glassgowkiss Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 3961
TRs: 3 Photos: 81
Loc: in the gutter
Originally Posted By: num1mc
The rock falls you point out could have been caused by the roots of sword ferns, last winters ice, time or dumb luck.

Could have, should have would have. Contrary to what you are saying this is actually science. Parks B.C sent a crew last week to clean up debris from the rockfall zone, and the preliminary report are confirming trees and routing action as a primary cause. There is a geologist scheduled to assess cause and stability this week.
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#1139299 - 05/26/15 01:44 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
num1mc Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 709
TRs: 0 Photos: 45
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
[quote=num1mc]confirming trees and routing action as a primary cause


So which was it?

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#1139310 - 05/26/15 04:27 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
Gypsylogger Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 6
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
Loc: Index
. My apologies if I came across as conceited or rude, I'm just trying to help make Index a safer place to climb.
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#1139313 - 05/26/15 06:57 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Gypsylogger]
Buckaroo Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 1597
TRs: 11 Photos: 349
Loc: forced bivy
Originally Posted By: Gypsylogger
. My apologies if I came across as conceited or rude, I'm just trying to help make Index a safer place to climb.


And my apologies if I did the same.

And yes safety is an issue. One other place that bothers me is the approach to the ledge below Aries. That chimney with the chockstones. You have to pull on them to scramble up. There used to actually be a ladder there. But I wonder if a ladder would get chopped?

I guess you have to try to assess if it will be climbable with the chockstones removed. And the same question for the 1st pitch of Narrow Arrow Standard.
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#1139319 - 05/26/15 09:25 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
abarlow Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 57
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
There was a ladder there? A bolt ladder or an actual ladder? I have never considered that chimney as unsafe... I haven't climbed it in a little while though as I generally prefer sandy corner or the first pitch of aries, which are both great ways to access that area.. Has it become more loose in the last year?

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#1139321 - 05/26/15 11:33 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: abarlow]
Good2Go Offline
member

Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 157
TRs: 3 Photos: 27
It's paramount to honor the ethics of our forefathers when stewarding a sacred place like Index

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#1139324 - 05/27/15 05:34 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: abarlow]
genepires Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 06/27/01
Posts: 3804
TRs: 8 Photos: 59
Loc: sharing-hood
Originally Posted By: abarlow
There was a ladder there? A bolt ladder or an actual ladder? I have never considered that chimney as unsafe... I haven't climbed it in a little while though as I generally prefer sandy corner or the first pitch of aries, which are both great ways to access that area.. Has it become more loose in the last year?


I remember that wooden ladder. must have been gone for at least 10 years now. I like the idea of that ladder coming back.
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#1139332 - 05/27/15 10:45 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Good2Go]
Buckaroo Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 1597
TRs: 11 Photos: 349
Loc: forced bivy
Originally Posted By: Good2Go
It's paramount to honor the ethics of our forefathers when stewarding a sacred place like Index


Well it looks like from this picture that trees were on the wall in the 1800's.

And you should only honor ethics that are worth honoring.

It might be interesting to try to determine where this pic was taken from and what part of the wall this is. Sure don't recognize the light colored part and it makes you wonder how much stone was removed and from what areas. The modern "quarry" area seems like it is further from the tracks than this pic, so that would make this the central area of the LTW.

The chockstones in the chimmney seem secure but they are just sitting there wedged in the dirt. And you have to completely commit to the first one and it's a little overhanging, if it comes off you are going downhill with a 300 lbs chockstone in your lap.
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#1139333 - 05/27/15 10:59 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
olyclimber Offline
☼☼☼☼☼☼☼

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 25303
TRs: 47 Photos: 895
Loc: In Love with You

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#1139335 - 05/27/15 11:35 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: olyclimber]
Buckaroo Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 1597
TRs: 11 Photos: 349
Loc: forced bivy
Originally Posted By: olyclimber


I saw what you did there

It looks freshly blasted yet the caption says "before the blast"
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#1139338 - 05/27/15 11:57 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
Good2Go Offline
member

Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 157
TRs: 3 Photos: 27
Wooden ladders have historical precedent, so they're acceptable


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#1139413 - 05/29/15 10:45 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Good2Go]
Raindawg Offline
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Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 1295
TRs: 0 Photos: 40
Loc: Exit 39
Brother Buckaroo says:
Quote:
Someone is cutting all the trees at the top of Thin Fingers on the LTW. And in the years since the LTW was purchased to make a park I've seen an increase in this "on the down low" "logging".
Is this really necessary? I thought this was a public park? Is it still private and people are trying to do this while it's still legal?


Well guess what, despite the pages of "discussion", Buckaroo, I think you had it right the first time. Lots of climbers, many of whom consider themselves the ultimate vanguards of the outdoor environment, have no problem with chopping down trees or adding permanent installations at will for their own narcissistic amusement, and typically justify it by invoking that it's less impact than the road they used to drive to the climbing area or even the damage done by local ski areas (for example, lines of bolts at Index...some next to protectable cracks, e.g. the bolted dihedral of "Numbah 10" which can be climbed clean on aid, as can "Dana's Arch" which some have tried to justify by saying that the bolts "protect the crack!" In both cases, they only ease the protection of "free" climbers). The earlier chopping down of trees at Index so that the wall would "dry out quicker," and later ridding the wall of them because they're in one's way is the definition of hubris. Environmentalists they are not. Self-absorbed they are. You don't have to agree with me and I don't expect you will, but it's an opinion someone should throw into the mix.
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#1139416 - 05/29/15 11:45 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
glassgowkiss Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 3961
TRs: 3 Photos: 81
Loc: in the gutter
Raindawg- T-A=0. I will pay you $200 if you free climb while placing gear on lead on Numbah10. And yes, your ascent will have to get verified. Basically, I am calling your bullshit.
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#1139423 - 05/30/15 08:31 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
chirp Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 1832
TRs: 0 Photos: 91
Loc: East Side Baby!
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Raindawg- T-A=0. I will pay you $200 if you free climb while placing gear on lead on Numbah10. And yes, your ascent will have to get verified. Basically, I am calling your bullshit.

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#1139596 - 06/03/15 01:02 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: chirp]
glassgowkiss Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 3961
TRs: 3 Photos: 81
Loc: in the gutter
Originally Posted By: chirp
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Raindawg- T-A=0. I will pay you $200 if you free climb while placing gear on lead on Numbah10. And yes, your ascent will have to get verified. Basically, I am calling your bullshit.



Contrary to your intended statement, this picture actually applies to you. Raindawg is talking shit, which he can't back up with his climbing ability.
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