Cord-o-lette/quad anchors

[DPS]

I've never liked the 'Pre Equalized Anchor; AKA Cord-o-lette, instead opting for a version of the two-point self-equalizing, sliding X anchor backed up with a third independent anchor using sewn spectra slings.

 

After reading this article, I am seriously thinking about changing to the Quad anchor, which seems like it is easy to construct, self equalizing, and plenty strong. http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/climbing-anchors-and-the-evolution-of-the-quad.

 

I assume folks are using standard 7mm perlon or 5.5 mm Maxim Tech cord. What does the cc.com brain trust think about using a thin (7.6 mm) triple rated rope? The inherent stretch could be advantageous or it could be a problem with wear. Thinking about buying the 20 meter version of this and cutting down for a quad anchor https://shop.epictv.com/en/ropes/camp/isotop-76mm-dry?sku=CAM15_ROPISO_RED20. Thoughts? Downsides?

[kurthicks]

Just use standard cord and forget about it. Anchors aren't failing due to the choice in materials in real world applications; they fail because the individual pieces or structure (rock/ice) is bad. I'd use 6mm or 7mm and call it good.

[Jake_Gano]

Just use standard cord and forget about it. Anchors aren't failing due to the choice in materials in real world applications; they fail because the individual pieces or structure (rock/ice) is bad. I'd use 6mm or 7mm and call it good.

 

So then why do you need a cordellette to build a quad? Couldn't you take a tied, 48-inch runner, tie an overhand knot on each end of the runner, clip each knotted bight to a bolt, then clip yourself into one strand and belay off the other? (If that isn't clear let me know and I'll draw a pic).

 

I have been using the "quad" on ice anchors lately and I like it.

[DPS]

[

So then why do you need a cordellette to build a quad? Couldn't you take a tied, 48-inch runner, tie an overhand knot on each end of the runner, clip each knotted bight to a bolt, then clip yourself into one strand and belay off the other? (If that isn't clear let me know and I'll draw a pic).

 

I have been using the "quad" on ice anchors lately and I like it.

 

This would work well where you have two solid anchors (bolts, good screws) but the Quad has the advantage of being able to equalize three or more pieces while remaining self equalizing.

[pcg]

Couldn't you take a tied, 48-inch runner, tie an overhand knot on each end of the runner, clip each knotted bight to a bolt, then clip yourself into one strand and belay off the other?

Just to be clear, it sounds like you are creating short bights at the end of the runner, when really the knots should be much closer together to avoid extension if one of the pieces of pro should fail.

[genepires]

 

So then why do you need a cordellette to build a quad? Couldn't you take a tied, 48-inch runner, tie an overhand knot on each end of the runner, clip each knotted bight to a bolt, then clip yourself into one strand and belay off the other? (If that isn't clear let me know and I'll draw a pic).

 

I have been using the "quad" on ice anchors lately and I like it.

 

The question of cordellete vs sewn runner is answered by how many and how far the protection pieces are. It is real hard to equalize 3 piece anchor with a 48" runner and still keep the angle reasonable. Usual bolt anchor is fine.

Edited March 19, 2016 by genepires

[kurthicks]

 

So then why do you need a cordellette to build a quad?

 

Because a double length runner isn't long enough. A triple or quad length sling works just fine too.

 

Couldn't you take a tied, 48-inch runner, tie an overhand knot on each end of the runner, clip each knotted bight to a bolt, then clip yourself into one strand and belay off the other?

 

Well, you can do that, but you won't achieve redundancy in the materials.

[Jake_Gano]

 

So then why do you need a cordellette to build a quad?

 

Because a double length runner isn't long enough. A triple or quad length sling works just fine too.

 

Couldn't you take a tied, 48-inch runner, tie an overhand knot on each end of the runner, clip each knotted bight to a bolt, then clip yourself into one strand and belay off the other?

 

Well, you can do that, but you won't achieve redundancy in the materials.

 

I wasn't considering using the quad for more than two point anchors, but now that it has been pointed out I can see where the longer cordellette material would have an advantage.

 

As for the lack of redundancy in the materials, wouldn't that also be the case with a "sliding X" anchor? Are there still many people using a "sliding X"? It is pretty spooky betting the farm on one strand of 10mm spectra, but like you said " Anchors aren't failing due to the choice in materials in real world applications"...

Have these type of anchors largely fallen out of favor?

 

 

[DPS]

 

As for the lack of redundancy in the materials, wouldn't that also be the case with a "sliding X" anchor? Are there still many people using a "sliding X"? Have these type of anchors largely fallen out of favor?

 

I stopped building anchors this way.

[Jcweinsx]

I love quads use em all the time on routes with bolted anchors. 6mm cord is plenty with 4 strands in there, clip 3 and you are good to go. Plenty of space to put partners in direct, clip gear and backpacks. I use an autolocker for masterpoint or clipping belay device in guide mode. Another advantage of quad is you plenty of cord you can cut up if you have to bail or fix old slings on rap. If bolts are good, climbing is easy, rockfall not common I still use sliding x ocassionally. You can make sliding x redundant with limiter knots, but knots weaken the system.

[VDiff]

There is an awesome article here all about equalizing anchors that may answer your questions:

http://www.vdiff.co.uk/#!equalizing-gear/f6w48

Edited March 29, 2016 by VDiff

[KirkW]

There is an awesome article here all about equalizing anchors that may answer your questions:

http://www.vdiff.co.uk/#!equalizing-gear/f6w48

 

That cartoon is anything but awesome. More Like debunked bullshit that's been parroted throughout the climbing community for years. Nice shameless self promotion though.

 

There's tons of info on the "quad" or the "equalette" online. Also... Read John Long's very popular book "Climbing Anchors." Then realize that it's all really just mental masturbation and go back to using the damn rope for multipitch. It's the strongest, most dynamic and versatile piece of gear you carry with you. Use it. Leave the rest of that shit at home unless you're ropegunning for someone and don't want to untie at the belay. If "equalization" is your big concern there's plenty of ways to pretend to do that with nothing but the rope. The dynamic nature of your main lifeline will give you far better "equalization" than any piece of static line or runner ... no matter how you tie them together.

 

I can't believe that the "quad" is a new concept for you guys.

 

Welcome to 2016 CC.

[genepires]

Plenty of ways to skin the perviable cat. Plenty of pluses and minuses of using both webbing or rope for anchors. No reason to get all hot and mighty with your opinion.

 

 

[DavisMeschke]

Using the rope is a complete cluster-fuck if you've ever done true "long routes". What you save in a few ounces of weight you lose in efficiency and time. Plus, you always climb the next pitch with the mindset that you have to stop early so you have enough rope to complete the anchor. Again, this is less efficient and costs time. Also, cord is a multi-use piece of gear; your climbing rope, not so much, especially when you're tied in. But hey, if you wanna haul around an extra 10M of climbing rope and claim to save weight by not bringing cord and lockers for your anchor, go for it.

[KirkW]

Using the rope is a complete cluster-fuck if you've ever done true "long routes". What you save in a few ounces of weight you lose in efficiency and time. Plus, you always climb the next pitch with the mindset that you have to stop early so you have enough rope to complete the anchor. Again, this is less efficient and costs time. Also, cord is a multi-use piece of gear; your climbing rope, not so much, especially when you're tied in. But hey, if you wanna haul around an extra 10M of climbing rope and claim to save weight by not bringing cord and lockers for your anchor, go for it.

 

If it takes you 10m of rope to build an anchor, you're doing it wrong. Buy hey, if you don't want to use the strongest and most dynamic piece of gear that you've already got with you and instead haul along a bunch of unnecessary crap that doesn't work as well, go for it!

[christophbenells]

whenever I climb with someone with cord-o-lettes it takes them forever to set up belay stations. They are usually the same people that have petzl adjust butt floss style, knives on the harness, and all them other do hickeys.

 

I use the rope for a several reasons,

 

less stuff on gear loops (i dont do gear slings)

 

70m rope means extra rope for anchors/pas/longer rappels

 

easy, simple and no extra gear needed. May end up a bit heavier, but much more streamline.

 

Not that cord-o-lettes don't have a place, i may consider taking one or some extra webbing on a route that i'm not sure of the descent options or rappel station tat condition etc.

 

Crags that utilize trees for top anchors you need some cord, etc.

 

So, I guess, it depends for me. I have never owned, used or carried one, nor felt the need for it, but many people i climb with always have it on their harness.

 

If leading in blocks, not sure how you would use the rope efficiently though...

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by christophbenells